News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Stewart Abramson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2023, 03:05:36 PM »

I thought Lazy Swan in Saugerties reopened.  I grew up about 15 minutes away. I drove by it on a trip home last year and it had been recently mowed.


Maybe they attempted to reopen but didnt quite pull it off as a quick perusal of their website has no mention of golf



For months the website has said "2023 rates coming soon" So perhaps there is a chance it may reopen
I thought the Lazy Swan was designed by Barry Jordan?


As. best I can tell, Hal Purdy designed /built 9 holes in 1989 or 1990. Barry Jordan built an additional nine, I think in the early 2000's. I have no idea how much he might have changed the original nine holes.

Rob Nydick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2023, 09:54:28 AM »
I believe Purdy gets credit for Navesink Country Club in Red Bank, NJ.  I have yet to play any of his other courses.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2023, 10:32:29 AM »
I taught tennis at Navesink CC one summer a long time ago. :)

Mike Worth

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2023, 11:29:01 AM »


I thought the Lazy Swan was designed by Barry Jordan?






As. best I can tell, Hal Purdy designed /built 9 holes in 1989 or 1990. Barry Jordan built an additional nine, I think in the early 2000's. I have no idea how much he might have changed the original nine holes.



I think what you said is contained in another thread here on GCA. There is documentation that Hal Purdy did the front nine. 




David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2023, 11:38:45 AM »
When Louisville was home, I was a member of a club that Hal Purdy was somehow involved. Club records were spotty, to say the least, but the original course was designed by George Davies and it went belly up twice during the Depression. An heiress of the Bingham fortune came to own the property and sometime in the 50s or so, she sold the property to some men who were members of other clubs (mostly LCC) who wanted a "country" club, as well.


8. HLCC merged with Big Spring Country Club about 9-10 years ago, creating two "campuses" and 36 holes. Apparently it's going well.



David,

The merger has gone pretty well. Having two courses has enabled the club to shut Harmony down beginning tomorrow for regrassing of all of the greens and some regrading of the most severe ones (4, 10, 13, & 15) so there will be more hole locations given today's green speeds. The extensively poa greens will be replaced with 007XL Super Bent. There will also be some green expansion back to earlier footprints. The course will be closed until May. Also adding quite a few new tees.


Great club championship story.


Hey John,


Thanks for the information. Last time I saw you was at Churchill Downs! If memory serves, it was (one of the few) a profitable day at the track!


Back to Golf.... After we hired Steve Babcock as our new Superintendent, he took me around one day and showed me the amount of shrinkage the greens had experienced over the years. It was stunning and a real eye opener. On #5, he walked off 6 steps from the edge of a green side bunker to the green. I had simply attributed it to bad design and never took into account the lack of maintenance practices directly resulted in the size reduction.


When we were interviewing for the aforementioned Superintendent position, we narrowed it down to 5 candidates. We gave each of them 2 full days of full access at the course to give them a better understanding of the course. Most of the applicants were from out of state. One guy, who came HIGHLY recommended by a member of the search committee, was an Assistant Superintendent at another course and actually brought his Superintendent along for his visits, from which they took copious notes which they, yes, THEY, shared at his interview.


Strangest effing interview I've ever been involved with, in any capacity!!

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2023, 03:29:29 PM »
I taught tennis at Navesink CC one summer a long time ago. :)
Jon Bon Jovi lived down the street from Navesink CC for close to fifteen years before relocating to South Florida in 2020. I remember going to a wedding there a number of years ago and although no one attending  knew much about the golf course everyone seemed to know about the Bon Jovi home. Itís a Hal Purdy design.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 05:04:00 PM by Tim Martin »

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2023, 05:08:21 PM »
He designed the golf course at my graduate alma mater, Rutgers University. https://ipo.rutgers.edu/business-services/golf-course/history


It's... not terrible.



Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2023, 08:00:09 PM »
     Bamm Hollow. In the early '90s it was considered a go-to place. Think it was private back then.
     27 holes. Great greens on the loop we played but very cramped design.

     Bey Lea. Hate[d] it. A strip mall would be an upgrade.

     Forge Pond. Very narrow, little interest.

     Mays Landing. Good, cheap golf. Two great holes and that was it.

     Ocean Acres. First island hole (the 10th) I ever played. Back nine very underrated. Par 5 opening is a problem.

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #33 on: July 14, 2023, 07:46:32 AM »
I have played 15 or so of his courses.  My favorites are as follows:


Tioga Downs, NY (great terrain, great views, very good routing - now owned by local casino)
Columbia G & CC, NY (only did 9 holes here, original 9 in 1919, has a little plaque / memorial on the course, great terrain / routing, private that used to allow public play at off peak times of season)
Luray Caverns, VA (hidden gem IMO, in blue ridge mountains, amazing views, very good routing / use of hilly land)
Stony Ford, NY (played more than 20 years ago, but remember the course as a solid I-84)
Maple Grove (FKA Norwood), IN (well routed course on hilly terrain, back 9 has housing, elevated greens)


I would say most of these are in the 4 to 5 Doak rating maybe higher.


Chris

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2023, 04:30:21 PM »
I thought the Lazy Swan was designed by Barry Jordan?
As. best I can tell, Hal Purdy designed /built 9 holes in 1989 or 1990. Barry Jordan built an additional nine, I think in the early 2000's. I have no idea how much he might have changed the original nine holes.
I think what you said is contained in another thread here on GCA. There is documentation that Hal Purdy did the front nine.


Hal Purdy designed the Katsbaan Golf club in 1968. It was never a thing of beauty or interest, and it was completely razed to make way for the 9 hole Lazy Swan GC in 2008, designed by Barry Jordan. He came back a few tears later and added 9 more for the club.
It closed due to divorce/covid, but it will reopen sometime this summer.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2023, 04:49:24 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2023, 04:40:56 PM »
Another Hal Purdy is the state owned Dinsmore GC located in Staatsburg NY. The stats make it look easy, but it's a gas to play. $20 for seniors/$26 otherwise.   
Par
70
Slope
106 (mens)
Rating
65.7
Yardage
5759
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Bret Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2023, 10:25:32 PM »
A tribute to Hal Purdy written in 1999. Hal was a baritone singer as well!


http://www.midatlanticdistrict.com/pdf/DELA/127018.pdf

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #37 on: July 15, 2023, 01:57:18 PM »
Another Hal Purdy is the state owned Dinsmore GC located in Staatsburg NY. The stats make it look easy, but it's a gas to play. $20 for seniors/$26 otherwise.   
Par
70
Slope
106 (mens)
Rating
65.7
Yardage
5759


Original 9 holes were a private estate course built in 1890s to 1900.  Purdue I believe did the 9 hole expansion.


Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2023, 12:44:15 AM »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #39 on: July 16, 2023, 09:46:21 PM »
While itís been over 20 years, I believe I took pictures when I played.  I will have to give them a looksie as I know what a 1900s green looks like compared to a a 1960s one.




Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2023, 10:10:23 PM »
When Louisville was home, I was a member of a club that Hal Purdy was somehow involved. Club records were spotty, to say the least, but the original course was designed by George Davies and it went belly up twice during the Depression. An heiress of the Bingham fortune came to own the property and sometime in the 50s or so, she sold the property to some men who were members of other clubs (mostly LCC) who wanted a "country" club, as well.


8. HLCC merged with Big Spring Country Club about 9-10 years ago, creating two "campuses" and 36 holes. Apparently it's going well.



David,

The merger has gone pretty well. Having two courses has enabled the club to shut Harmony down beginning tomorrow for regrassing of all of the greens and some regrading of the most severe ones (4, 10, 13, & 15) so there will be more hole locations given today's green speeds. The extensively poa greens will be replaced with 007XL Super Bent. There will also be some green expansion back to earlier footprints. The course will be closed until May. Also adding quite a few new tees.


Great club championship story.


I bet there were some interesting club championships. I had a great host who played in the rain with me once upon a time.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2023, 10:13:11 PM »
Chris,
There are remnants of bunkers way over on the left side of the present day 15th hole (south nine) where the original course was laid out, nothing else about the course is 12 decades old, and nothing that shows up on a 1940s aerial is even remotely in the same areas as the present day greensites.   
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #42 on: July 18, 2023, 08:05:55 AM »
Onondaga G&CC - Syracuse
Hal Purdy was brought in to look at the final three holes on the front nine. He looked to add length to the 7th by pushing the green back and to straighten out the 8th and turn it into a par four. Member Edward Collum proposed that the 8th could be a par three set in the trees and the 9th could be a massive uphill par five coming back to the clubhouse. Purdy followed his suggestions and the current 7th, 8th and 9th holes were built at that time. The routing change and holes worked well, but the only problem was this occurred in an era of where there was an emphasis on modernization of golf, so the architecture did not match with the existing architecture from Walter Travis.

Yanandasis - Utica

I'm pretty sure he rebuilt two rebuild greens on the front nine at Yanandasis around the same time. Either that or it was Skip Wogan, but I know it definitely crosses over with work done at Onondaga by one of the two.

-

John Bouffard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2023, 11:39:59 AM »
What do the architects on this forum know about Hal Purdy? He designed many golf courses in my part of NJ and I believe several others in the surrounding NY tri-state area. I don't know of any courses he designed which are highly regarded architecturally, but I was surprised to learn how much design he actually did up here, and wondered what people in the business knew about him and thought of his work.


John -  I'm not in the business, but here are my two cents.


I think Hal Purdy designed at least 50 courses in NY/NJ/CT from the 1960's through the 1980's. Like Mike Cirba, my previous location and similar obsession have led me to play more than a handful of what I believe to  be are his designs (based on scorecard, website and member info). I don't know how much "Purdy" was in the courses at the time I played them. e.g. the courses at Flanders Valley were designed by HP in the 1960's but apparently re-designed by Rees Jones in the 1980's.  I haven't played  the two courses that Mike C mentioned as being a DS 0 and 1. The ones I've played would be 2's through 4's. Much of the quality of the end product was dependent on the  site he was given and how much room, movement and elevation /variety the site has. The commonalities/generalities that I can recall from the ones I've played are: (i) they are mostly well routed and  walkable, (ii) They don't look like he moved much dirt and seems to have laid out the holes as he "found" them on the property, (iii) the greens and bunkers on some of his courses are pretty basic and flat (e.g. Whitney Farms) while in other cases are more complex and interesting (e.g. the very good value Sunset Valley and the NLE Lazy Swan where there were some pretty fun holes, including a par 3 with a Biarritz-like green), and (iv) the publics are typically quite inexpensive to play. It's interesting to note that the Arnold Palmer course at Forsgate was named after Mr Palmer, but designed by Mr Purdy. I can't think of any "destination courses" of his. He designed many publics and muni's that have tee sheets full of locals that are very happy playing them. I think there is something good to be said for that.  He also designed a number of privates (Canoe Brook, Columbia, Tioga and the aforementioned Forsgate Palmer) which I'd guess form the more detailed green complexes and bunkering either had bigger budgets than his public courses or had subsequent work done.

Which HP courses have you played?




Hi Stewart -- thanks to you and everyone who responded. I was generally aware of his designs in the area where I live, though not all of them, and I had already found out some information about his designs in a google search. I was looking more for "expert opinion" or impressions of those who knew more about golf course design, and many of you kindly obliged.


I am a fairly average golfer, lowest index ever was 6.8...but I don't purport to know much about architecture. Regarding Purdy, I have played the Rutgers University course, all 3 courses at Fiddler's Elbow (where I'm a member, and where he designed portions of what are now the River and Meadow courses), and Warrenbrook, which is about a 5 minute walk from my house. I think there are several very nice holes at Warrenbrook and Rutgers. The Fiddler's courses he had a hand in are walkable and nice, but not spectacular; I believe his original holes there have been redesigned however.


I was recently invited to play and join another club where he was the designer, Fairmount, in Chatham, NJ. The club website lists Purdy as the designer in 1958, but mentions it was updated by Robert McNeil of Northeast Golf recently.


I noticed at Warrenbrook that there were a couple of very nice holes, but that many of the holes at Fiddler's were very plain and uninspiring. I think someone explained why this is probably the case: that he likely worked with small budgets, didn't move much earth, and focused on playability, walkability, and ease of maintenance. Where the property allowed a good hole, I suppose he was able to see it and build it, but beyond that, the courses and holes were more ordinary and plain.


Thanks again to everyone who responded.

Ed Galbavy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #44 on: July 28, 2023, 10:11:03 PM »
Hi John
The house I grew up in was beyond the 13th green at Warrenbrook.  I grew up during its lay out and its construction, which was around the mid to late 60's.  One change I wished they did not do was to move the 8th green.  It was originally to the right of the current green close to the hill.  Seemed like Purdy didn't move much earth when they built it.  I'm not sure, but the old Hofheimer mausoleum was back in the woods near the 2nd hole.  On an earlier post, the estate there had a golf course connected with it.  But I would not know if part of the layout of Warrenbrook had any connection to the NLE golf course.


many fond memories of growing up there.  I cut my teeth on learning golf there, I caddied when it was a private course, Found golf balls in the woods and in the pond by #5, and sold them to the golfers.  I even earned a trespassing citation from the park police back in 1978 when a couple of us snuck on and were playing when the police drove up.  Fun times.


Haven't been back in years.

Philip Caccamise

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Hal Purdy
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2023, 01:31:22 AM »
One of the few NYS Parks courses I haven't played but the website lists him as the designer as of 1967:

Located in [/size]Chenango Valley State Park[/color][/size] in scenic Broome County, the original 9-hole course, known as Riverside Golf Course, was designed by engineer James Evans and landscape architect Laurie Cox and constructed by the Civilian Conservation Corps in the 1930s. In 1967 the course was redesigned by Hal Purdy and expanded to 18 holes. It offers players many challenges from tight, irrigated tree-lined fairways to rolling terrain, undulating greens, and difficult approach shots.[/color][/i]

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back