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Sean_A

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ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of New
« on: May 28, 2015, 06:15:24 AM »
No mention of Dornoch should be made without first paying respects to John Sutherland.  He joined the club as a teenager and was appointed Secretary while still a teenager.  Most club members owe a great debt to a prominent gentleman or two whose strength of character and dogged perseverance served as the foundation for a successful club.  Royal Dornoch is no exception and indeed may owe an even larger debt for the legacy of John Sutherland.  Being the secretary of the club for nearly 60 years, his death in 1941 must have been a severe blow to club and town.  It is impossible to underestimate the influence and skill of John Sutherland. He oversaw the transition of a sleepy Scottish club into one of the most famed and "royal" in the world.  Sutherland was partly able to profile the town and links via his position as a writer for Golf Illustrated and the London Daily News.  Some were convinced to make the journey north to sample the highly reputed links of (newly minted) Royal Dornoch and these included the influential Ernest Holderness and Joyce and Roger Wethered.  The Great Triumvirate also made their way to Dornoch for an exhibition match in 1906. Fittingly Braid won with two scores of 75 and in a letter written to the Captain of the club he stated “You have indeed got a fine course up there at Dornoch.  I should think the finest in Scotland.”   

Let us not forget in addition to his talents as an architect and administrator, Mr Sutherland could play the game.  He won the club’s Silver Medal on 11 occasions.  Yet Sutherland had keen competition as the best architect to come from Dornoch; of course I write of Donald Ross.  It wasn’t long after Sutherland took up the position of Secretary that he could see there was something about the young keeper of the green and Sutherland encouraged Ross to seek the tutelage of Old Tom Morris. The rest of the story is well known....

However, in the case of Dornoch, Sutherland's sway held supreme as the only input to the course made by Ross was to the 1st in 1921  At the same time Sutherland gave us the 2nd.  Due to the Royal Airforce commandeering the final six holes of the Ladies Course (now called the Struie), after WWII the club decided to push northward for five holes; and thus was created a very fine stretch of golf which commences with the monster 7th and ends with the great par four 11th.  The 13th was also a new hole as was the 6th which used to play to the current 11th green.  Robbie Grant, the Greenkeeper and 1920 Open champion, George Duncan, oversaw the changes which were unveiled in 1948.  One can only wonder if and how the course may differ today if Sutherland were alive to oversee the major changes after WWII. Be that as it may, Dornoch is very special and commands a unique place in the history of Scottish golf; which is remarkable considering only one major has been staged on the links, the 1985 Amateur.  The lack of hosting major events is surely due to Dornoch’s location a scant eight degrees south of the Arctic Circle and hard on Embo Bay.  Even if the links isn’t the most difficult of tests, the majesty of the setting and thrill of the golf is quite enough to satisfy all who care about such matters. Testament to this fact is clear when one considers the popularity of the Carnegie Shield, an event held every summer.  2013 marked the 100th playing of the tournament.  The namesake of the grand silver trophy is indeed the Andrew Carnegie, whose generosity knew no bounds.  It is thought that in the last two decades of his life he donated $350 million...that is the equivalent to over $8 billion in today's money!

The course follows a lazy S pattern along the shore and can be fairly called a classic out and back design. It is also fair to say Dornoch's opener is gentle, yet this should not convey the idea the hole lacks interest. 




Many will stand on the 2nd tee and not notice the bank of gorse to the right for the frightening sight of the turtleback green fronted by bunkers.  For the most part the evil weed is under control, but there is a glaring issue here and on #17. 


This is one of those holes where a good shot is great and average shot can be awful.  It isn't a bad play to be short of the green where the most amount of space is available for recovery.  The general theme of the upturned saucer green will be oft repeated throughout the round.


Despite the compelling nature of the first two holes, some may wonder what all the fuss is about.  Once clearing the whins on the way to the third tee the world opens up first with a view of the 17th green then with much of the links spread tantalizing below.


Playing the 3rd is nearly as wonderful as the view....this is just another ho hum superb hole in the collection of Dornoch gems.




More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 03:48:36 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

James Boon

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-3
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 05:36:47 PM »
Sean,

Stop teasing us and post more photos!

Regarding the journey and the remote location, one thing always jumps out of the clubs history to me as a Notts member: Tom Williamson, the long standing pro at Notts and man probably most responsible for Hollinwell today, was asked to visit Dornoch in 1945 to suggest improvements (the RDGC captain at the time was also a Notts member) but due to the length of journey and his old age, he declined the invitation.

Cheers,

James
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

David_Tepper

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-3
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 05:44:16 PM »
Sean -

I believe this was your first visit to Dornoch since the 3rd hole was altered over the 2013-14 winter. Did the hole look or play any different for you?

DT  
« Last Edit: May 28, 2015, 05:48:13 PM by David_Tepper »

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-3 New
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 06:11:08 PM »
Boony

That is very interesting concerning T Williamson!

David

Its hard to tell the difference with #3 unless one is well versed in all things Dornoch.  If anything, it felt like there was less room down the left, but I could well be wrong.

DORNOCH CONT

There is an element of deja vu with holes 3 through 5 having perched tees and swinging left, but all three greens are very different even if raised.  The 4th is the best of the three.




I appreciate the aesthetics of the tee shot for #5 more than the previous two holes.  I don't get to Dornoch nearly as often as I should, but this green always surprises me in how large it is.  From the fairway I always imagine a small target.








More to follow. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:46:15 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-5 New
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 08:13:47 AM »
The 6th is a prime example of how much run-away there is to several of Dornoch's greens.  This short hole is tough! 


At a whopping 464 yards, the only indifferent hole on the otherwise outstanding front nine is the 7th.  I think this hole was only built after more land was obtained in the 1940s. Nonetheless the hole sports a fine green.  To some degree I can understand the oppressive length of the 7th, but its still a bit of a charmless slog and easily the least engaging of the newest holes.


Swinging considerably left (Foxy is the only legger right) and dropping perhaps 35 feet once the fairway eases from sight, #8 is a fine hole boasting an interesting puncbowl green.




The repetitive nature of the greenside bunkers becomes quite obvious by the time we reach the 9th green.  There is a load of front right/left variation in play. Still, the 9th is solid par 5 featuring a heaving humpty bumpty fairway that most lovers of links long to see.  Coincidentally, this is exactly the sort of terrain which Castle Stuart doesn't have.   


More to follow. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:47:01 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

David Whitmer

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2015, 08:52:34 AM »
"Coincidentally, this is exactly the sort of terrain which Castle Stuart doesn't have."

Agreed, Sean. On a trip two years ago that included TOC, Muirfield, Carnoustie, Castle Stuart, and Royal Dornoch, our group was unanimous that Royal Dornoch was our favorite. I really loved Castle Stuart, but playing Royal Dornoch the day after Castle Stuart I noticed, as you mentioned above, that Castle Stuart was lacking the "humpty bumpty" fairways that RD has. What a treat to hit your tee shot over the hill on #8, then find a wildly undulating fairway waiting for you! Those little nuances pushed the golf course to the top of my list.

That back corner of the golf course (#8, #9, and #10) is simply a beautiful spot. During our afternoon round, we were almost literally the only ones on the golf course. Walking off the ninth green and spotting a rainbow over the North Sea, we hung out for a good ten minutes and realized that just might be the neatest spot on a golf course we'll ever be. And what a great golf course! I can't imagine going back to Scotland and not finding my way back to RD, difficult as it may be.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2015, 07:09:55 PM »
Dornoch in May is such a beautiful place with the gross in bloom.

I can't agree with your assessment of #7. Yes, it is a long hole... but, it offers a completely different challenge than the par fours just played... and clears the palate for the blind tee shot to follow on 8. It is a fantastic transition hole, I think.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9 New
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2015, 03:13:23 AM »
Whitty

Yes, #7 is very different from the previous (and later holes) and yes, I do think all courses need a serious ball breaker hole of this length.  However, I want an opportunity to smile while playing that ball breaker, such as 10 at St Enodoc and Sea Headrig provide....something a bit different to make the walk more than about breaking balls.  Dornoch's 7th fails miserably in this regard. 

ROYAL DORNOCH CONT

I am not a proponent of downwind/downhill short holes covered by fronting bunkers so the 10th will never rate highly my book.  That said, there are some excellent recovery situations offered and the golfer does need to weigh up his options even if none of them are particularly enticing.  I have only seen the hole located at the back of the green once (in my very limited experience of 6 plays over a great many years)...and that day the hole played into a headwind.  There is a perverse sort of logic at work here  8)


For mine, we now hit Dornoch's best and most varied four hole stretch.  The 11th is one of my favourite holes.  I think it is usually best to drive up the left, but right offers a decent view of the green.  Either way, the approach is superb.  My favourite feature (and favourite bunker on the course) of the large green complex is the right side bunker.  It slyly eats into the green like no other bunker at Dornoch.  This photo is taken from the upper links.


Superb green.


More to follow.

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:47:33 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Jon Wiggett

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2015, 03:16:17 AM »
Sean,

I also do not agree about 7. Yes, tee to green it lacks something which could be easily remedied with a bit of shaping but the green is one of the most subtle challenges I have seen and something the course does not have much of. My only real criticism of Dornoch is the par 3s as a collective 3 of the 4 offer an almost identical challenge with the 10th being the only really poor hole on the course.

Jon

Niall C

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2015, 07:13:09 AM »
There's some interesting comments here on a well known course. Looking forward to how Sean ranks it at the end of the tour. In the CG I think the scoring was something like 10 9 10 10 which seems well over the top even as fantastic as the course is.

So far Sean has highlighted the similarity of the right to left par 4's from 3 onwards, his lack of love for the 7th, the repetition of the bunkering and what I would call a lack of lee-way on the 11th green. I wouldn't disagree with any of the comments so far other than to agree with Jon and Mikes love of the 7th green even if the rest of the hole is a bit uninspiring.

One thing Sean hasn't yet mentioned is the abundance of plateau greens which I think is the biggest weakness at Dornoch. Its not only the number of them but the nature of them. If you compare them to Moray Old, the plateau greens at Lossie have a bit of a false front to help with depth perception and there's also fewer of them and they are spread out in the round so that you don't feel they are over done. In comparison the number of plateau greens is overkill and not really as well done even if the internal contouring on some of them is full of interest.

When you take it all into consideration its really just a bit of a dog track with a nice view  ;D

Niall

Jason Hines

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2015, 07:40:52 AM »
Sean,

Thanks very much for this one, Dornoch is my dream destination and course to play.  Will make it there someday soon and looking forward to playing this course over and over again.

Philip Gawith

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2015, 08:21:26 AM »
A few observations:

- I am surprised Sean that you consider the gorse a big issue on 2 and 17. You have to hit pretty rank shots for it to come into play. In point of fact, i suspect as many balls are lost on the right of the 16th as either of these - if you are playing into the wind. Overall, i think the manner in which they have opened up the course a bit more/made the gorse less of a factor eg left of 6, right of 7 is a considerable improvement.
- I think there is some deja vu between 3 and 4 although in reality they play very differently on account of such different greens. 4 is obviously a much harder hole, though the changes to 3 have made it a tighter tee shot . The tee on 5 is an order of magnitude higher than the other tees and therefore makes it feel very different. You are right to comment on the size of the hole. What makes it a much harder hole than it might look is the angle of the green.  The approach shot from left of centre is much the easiest, but I would guess less than 20% of balls go there. So everyone else is left with a shortish shot in from the wrong angle, and the green is not easy to hit from the right unless you have very good control of distance.
- i think you are a bit hard on 10. What you say is right if downwind, but in my experience the wind in Dornoch splits quite evenly in opposite directions. When i was there earlier this month we played it downwind on the first and then into a 3-4  club wind on the second day.
- on this same point of the wind: almost too obvious to say, but makes an enormous difference. If the wind is behind you going out then you know that 10,11, 14, 16 and 18 are going to be very difficult!
- you are right that there are more right to left shapes than the opposite, but i don't feel holes like 5 and 8 play right to left, anymore than Foxy plays left to right. Even on a hole like 17 you are generally trying to hit a straight tee shot rather than right to left. Generally it feels like the wind probably dominates more than the shape of the hole in determining the shot you hit. Additionally, on holes like 3 and 4, it is not easy to persuade yourself to hit a draw when the worst trouble - gorse - is on the left, and that also affects how these holes play.

Philip

David_Tepper

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-9
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2015, 11:15:27 AM »
One observation I can offer (after playing 250-300 rounds there ;)) is that, depending on the direction of the wind and the pin positions,  I often find myself hitting the same club on 3 of the 4 par-3's in a round. A little more variety might be nice.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 11:26:50 AM by David_Tepper »

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-11 New
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2015, 07:29:20 PM »
Niall

Just as at Pinehurst, I think the plateau greens are overdone.  But also just as at Pinehurst, the greens are the single most famous trait of the course.  If you like Dornoch you have to like the greens. 

Philip

I disagree about gorse on #2...it is very much in play and not from a poor shot...just a harsh bounce off the green bank.  Perhaps my bigger issue is I don't care for gorse except well out of the way or in very small doses.  The bloody stuff is a ball eater and releases a chemical which promotes lush grass growth...very bad news for links. 

17 is one of those holes which technology has severely compromised.  Its dead easy to lose a ball going straight down the middle of the fairway.  Such a pity the hole has become such a lay-up proposition. 

ROYAL DORNOCH CONT

#12 has a feel which is not like the remainder of the course.  The green is raised, but not really of the plateau style such as many others.  Of course, the main feature is the left mound some 20 yards or so shy of the green.  Its placement leaves just enough space to squeeze in a long approach, yet if one dumps it into the mound the recovery isn't all that bleak. 
 

The walk back for 13 is a bit of a hitch in the "walk in  the park" test...well that and the slog uphill 16th.  This one-shotter is comfortably the easiest short hole, but decent for that.       
 

Foxy needs no comment from me except to say my playing partner wasn't terribly impressed on his first viewing (oh to be so young and foolish  ;D ).  The hole was cut far right which considerably reduces the length of the hole.     
 

In the photo below the three plateaux fingers poking their way into play from the right is quite evident.


The last finger is the immense green.  One gets a sense of yardage difference between left and right.  The red flag can just be made out against the backdrop of the highest section of gorse.


More to follow.

Ciao
 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:48:28 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Philip Gawith

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-14
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2015, 02:00:34 AM »
That pin on Foxy is a 1 in 25 rounds affair, if that.

On 12 that mound left and short is a formidable defence. You have to be Rory Mcilroy to fly it and still hold the green if you are coming in from any distance. You  also see a lot of three putts on that green. Overall the hole tends to play a bit harder than you might expect.

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of 1-14 New
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2015, 11:30:40 AM »
Philip

Yes, I gather the hole location is rarely right...first time for me, but it does open ones eyes to the diversity of this great, great hole. 

ROYAL DORNOCH CONT.

It may be a controversial opinion, but I think Dornoch loses its way a bit after the 14th.  While an okay hole, 15 suffers from an overly large green and 16 is one of the worst holes I have experienced on a great course.  It is simply an uphill slog to a dull green with dopey mounds on the right wing.  The hole screams out that the archie ran out of room.  Luckily, the stretch is broken up by the very fine 17th.  The green is a wonder to behold when on the crest of the downslope to the lower fairway.  However, not all is roses, the gorse, seen and unseen, creates an unnecessary clausterphobic feeling and a situation where balls can be lost rather easily. 




I prefer the easy touch coming home, so the tough, uncompromising 18th is not an easy hole to venerate.  I wonder if any thought was given to finishing at the practice green? 

The humpty bumpty fairways, magnificent setting, great walk, exceptional condition of the rough and interesting greens make it difficult to question the greatness of Dornoch, but it isn't without shortcomings which I noticed in glaring fashion during this trip.  Darn if I can explain it, but Dornoch is more about the majestic experience and shouldn't be over-scrutinised.  Even so, it is difficult to arrive at any other conclusion other than Dornoch is a great course. What has changed for me is I would like to revisit Dornoch whereas after my last trip I was left a bit disillusioned.  1* 2015

Ciao     
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 10:48:54 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Jon Wiggett

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2015, 01:29:18 PM »
Sean,

it is a shame that the gorse has encroached again especially on 17. About 10 years ago the club stripped back the gorse along the right side of the lower fairway opening it up much more. The gorse from just short of the green was completely removed meaning as you ascended the last few yards on the green the entire seaward panorama opened up to the golfer, most exhilarating!!!

Jon 

Niall C

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #17 on: May 31, 2015, 01:32:43 PM »
Sean

I agree about the plateau greens, they are what they are and that's the character of the course. I can't agree with you though on the course losing it's way after 14, for my money it loses it way after 13  ;). Foxy seems to me to be a good bit over rated even if it is one of those unusual and iconic holes. It's interesting what you say about the 16th as it seems to me that Mark Parsinen based the 12th at CS on it which is one of my favourite holes there even if it is a bit of a plateau green.

So 1* on the Arble scale. What would you give it on the Doak scale ?

Niall

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of New
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2015, 02:00:05 PM »
Jon

I don't think it would take much gorse removal to make 17 more attractive.  In any case, I would start with #2!

Niall...its hard to take a man seriously when he doesn't kowtow to the obvious greatness of Foxy  ;)

I don't care for the 12th at Castle Stuart...for my money its the worst hole on the course...as is 16 at Dornoch...by some distance. 

I think Dornoch is between a 7 and a 8...so in Doak fashion I give it a 8...good enough to make my current top 10 in GB&I (it moved up quite a few spots after this play). 

Ciao 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2020, 03:37:01 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Mark Pavy

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2015, 04:59:05 PM »
Link to further imagery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NkMW1ubkMk

Tough pin on Foxy (8:50), looks to be the same pin as Sean's pic.

David Davis

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2015, 05:07:42 PM »
I too love Dornoch and need to get back there as it's been a few years. I also played it together with Castle Stuart in the first full season it opened and in March or April. I preferred Dornoch but don't disagree with your assessment really. I think a lot of the wow factor hits you on the second hole when you look out on what's to come. I think I also agree on your Doak scale assessment.

I will say that on that trip Cruden Bay was my favorite and left the strongest lasting impression. Not sure if I'd feel the same way today, which is why I need to get back again soon.
Next up: open to ideas!

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.top100golfcourses.com

David_Tepper

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2015, 05:40:25 PM »
"16 is one of the worst holes I have experienced on a great course.  It is simply an uphill slog to a dull green with dopey mounds on the right wing.  The hole screams out that the archie ran out of room."

While I think Sean's is being a bit severe, #16 is certainly one of the more controversial holes at Dornoch. ;) 

David_Tepper

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2015, 03:55:16 AM »
Rich Goodale's comments on #16, from Experience Royal Dornoch:

The 16th is an uphill climb to a largely featureless skyline green. Many people feel it is the weakest hole on the course, 
but Peter Allis has called it the epitome of links golf, due to its imitation of infinity. The hole is a superb test of driving, both in strategy and execution. If you stray even a little to the left your ball can boomerang off the slope to the oblivion of an old quarry. If you bail out right there are two fairway bunkers which will guarantee a five.

A long iron or 3-wood to the left hand side, short of the quarry, is the safe shot. This leaves a blind uphill second shot for which distance control is difficult. The green is large, flat and fast, and protected by three large mounds on the right and a large hollow at the rear. Once on the green take a moment to enjoy one of the most beautiful panoramic views anywhere in golf.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 04:01:19 AM by David_Tepper »

Sean_A

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2015, 04:06:56 AM »
David

I would never call 16 a weak hole.  But for my tastes, a hole that much uphill needs a bit of charm to make up for the slog element.  The 16th couldn't be called a charmer like Sandwich's 10th.  A big part of the charm comes down to yardage...the hole is too long for that sort of grade.  It strikes me as purely a connecter from the lower links up to the lovely 17th.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 11:32:02 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Jason Topp

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Re: ROYAL DORNOCH: To The Links Of
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2015, 10:54:27 AM »
Sean - nice work catching the features of the course on a cloudy day. 

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