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Sean_A

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The Peculiarities of PERRANPORTH GC New
« on: August 06, 2014, 06:07:02 PM »
Brora, Pennard, St Enodoc, Carnoustie Burnside, Welshpool and Perranporth!  Why isn't James Braid acknowledged as one of the great archies?  Give the guy some good land and he produced great stuff in spades.

I went back to Perranporth (again) recently and was still flabbergasted at the outrageous nature of the design.  I now see where RTJ got his ideas for The Cashen, only Braid didn't have to push dirt about.  The conditions were near perfect (3-4 more days of sun and no rain will see Perranporth at its absolute best) with a normal southwesterly wind.  Last year the course was absolutely burned out with the wind out of the east - making for a crazy day of golf.  Perranporth makes a ton of sense with a normal wind, put all those short par 4s downwind (east wind) and all hell can break loose.  An old friend who was injured walked the course with me and barely uttered a word about the design the whole way round.  His eyes told me all that I needed to know. 


Perranporth is the first course at which I ever bought a course guide.  Don't lament too much over me being raked, the total cost for a guide and weekend game was £28.50.  Notice the hole yardages and pars, then forget them.  Why?  The course is wild and one needs to play by his wits. 

#1


#1 last year - I drove the green!  Also note how much extra space the photo depicts, it is needed in these conditions!


Approach.


Onto the crazy 2nd, but in truth no more crazy than about half dozen other holes.  On the second shot the direct line to the green is left of the markers, but how much carry is there?  For that matter, how far does one hit a lay-up? 


Looking back toward the teeish.


If one is fortunate he will emerge from the bumps with a ball in play.  The green swings madly left. 


You are not hallucinating.  This is the 3rd. It looks a doddle to drive to the upper flats....


...but all concenetration should be on trying to leave this for an approach...its the best most can hope for.


We haven't quite stopped climbing.  Where is the 4th and how in the hell is one meant to hit the green?  We have gone from all out smash mouth golf to the ultimate in pussy footing.  This ball ache one-shotter is probably best played as a ball ache two-shotter.


With a hairy dune right and steep drop off to more hair left, there is precious little room to execute.  This view is from online wih the ladies tee. 


The green from the 5th tee shows fairway back to the ladies tee left.  The men's tee is somewhere below the hill! 


You want views?


Now then, time to consult the guide.  Hhhmm, par 5 oer the top.  This is big golf!  Photo from behind the green.


The short 6th.  Don't be short, don't be long, don't be left.  Be right.  Photo from behind the green.


Photo from right of the green.


Guide consultation #2, the 7th is a ball donation hole.  The bell tells the story.  This photo is looking back to the tee.


Behind the green.


The 8th is the first of four drivable par 4s.  Playing in the same direction as the first, the green is very difficult to hold.


9 plays back to the house - sort of.  We strolled down the 8th, now we must clamber up the 9th.  The fairway curiously steers to the right - away from the prime angle of approach.  A good drive leaves an heroic approach.


Looking back to the tee.


Much more sedate, the blind 10th runs past the house and offers a opportunity to ask the many questions one must surely have.  First of which would be to enquire as to if it is possible for a Pimms to be delivered to the 11th tee.


Many of the greens are fairly straight-forward with some slope, but a few greens have interesting shaping shy of the surfaces.  Below is a look at the 10th green.


What followed was another long par 5.  After hitting my drive I did wait for the Pimms, but the service in England is not renown for its promptness. Feeling disappointed and thirsty, I trudged onward and as it turned out upward.  The green is on a high shelf making it difficult to hold. 


Taken from the 12th tee.


Much like North Wales' O.L and L.O, the 12 & 13th at Perranporth are a marvel to behold. Totalling less than 600 yards and 8 in par, its a job just to read the guide let alone decide on a strategy.




#13






Deja vu - the rear of the green is a mirror image to the front of the green.  That can only mean one thing - low on the ends and high in the middle!  Beau Desert anyone?


Definitive proof of Perranporth's provenance.


Yet another plateau green. The 14th from the back of the green.


At 15 we get a wide open fairway, though it doesn't appear so from the tee.  Essentially, the 15th and 10th (to the left) are combined fairways.  The hole isn't great, but its a welcome relief at a perfect time in the back nine.  The lone par 3 on the back nine caps off a very good set.  Playing downhill and in firm conditions, one must figure a landing spot and hope for the best.


Taken from the back tee on #17.  The 6th green is the main subject.  To the left is the third fairway and behind the 6th green is the 3rd green. One gets a better sense of how steeply uphill the long par 3 4th is!  The fairway feeding down from the right is #5.   


#17 features a blind drive, but a sensible one with a decent landing zone.  The green runs left to right and is very good.  The 18th is the final short par 4 and its a cracker.  The plateau green makes it difficult to really go for the green in one, but in any case one wants to leave an approach as much into the wind as possible. 


Knowing the obligatory caravan site is just off the right side of the fairway, many folks must end up pin-highish left. 


Okay, much like the hilltop courses I really enjoy, Perranporth is just too wild to be given serious consideration for greatness.  What it lacks in that department is made up for in spades with shot after shot excitement.  I mentioned Ballybunion's Cashen course, the two are quite similar, but Perranporth is much better and a more sensible walk.  Somehow, these classic archies were able to see holes and offer a walk that while may be strenuous, is not crazy.  I am quite surprised that there aren't more par 3s on the course.  The extreme terrain seems to be calling for them, but I guess it is not very satisfactory to have string of short holes.  The Ladies card offers five to the Men's three.  The count is the same for the par 5s.  Indeed, the Ladies card looks very interesting and some of the tees are quite tempting to have a go. 

My first visit to Perranporth was in 1997 (not long before I moved to England) on a word of mouth visit recommended by a mate who played it on a whim while on holiday.  He described Perranporth as a clifftop course, typical English understatement.  Of course, Steel's book missed Perranporth!  Rather oddly, so did Pennink's.  Anyway, I was just as stunned this time as any previous visits.  Much time was spent in a daze wandering around like a lost child while his ice cream melts.  Perranporth is a tough course to remember the details, but that certainly isn't the case for its spirit.  I could play Perranporth tomorrow and have a wonderful sense of adventure - its that magical. 1*  2014

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 30, 2021, 05:53:47 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Jud_T

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 06:17:46 PM »
Sean,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears much more playable and walkable for the average player than the Cashen (although that's not saying much!).
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2014, 06:28:42 PM »
I think the lack of kudos for Braid is because of courses like Perranporth. It's just not very good. Lovely day, nice walk, but some of the holes are schizophrenic. And not in a charming quirky sort of way, just lousy golf that you may as well have drunk 10 pints before playing.

Among the greats you mention, he seems to have done quite a lot of very average courses. Every county seems to have Braid courses and most aren't ones that attract golfers from a neighbouring county, let alone future afield.

A broken clock gets it right twice a day.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2014, 06:36:28 PM »
I tend to rather like the limited work of Braid's I've experienced first hand. That said, I'll suggest it's "holiday golf" (and nothing wrong with that), so far removed from pencil and card thinking in some cases that it doesn't agree with many a modern golfer. But I'd be more than happy to spend a day in the sunshine at Peranporth. Looks like a lot of fun. I'm even personally a fan of the first photo showing the burnt conditions from last year, but then I do love courses at lightening pace.

In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2014, 07:15:09 PM »
Thanks so much for these pre Buda updates and pictures.  I wish my plane left tomorrow.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Sean_A

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2014, 07:23:57 PM »
Thanks so much for these pre Buda updates and pictures.  I wish my plane left tomorrow.

Lynn, ooooh, pick your 4somes partner very carefully at Perranporth.  A short hitting fairway finder may serve you well  :D

Ryan

I fear our tastes in architecture are very different.  First it was St Enodoc's 10th and now its all 18 at Perranporth.  What next, the Dell?  You are a hard task master  8)


Ciao
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 07:41:49 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2014, 07:33:15 PM »
I think the lack of kudos for Braid is because of courses like Perranporth. It's just not very good. Lovely day, nice walk, but some of the holes are schizophrenic. And not in a charming quirky sort of way, just lousy golf that you may as well have drunk 10 pints before playing.

Among the greats you mention, he seems to have done quite a lot of very average courses. Every county seems to have Braid courses and most aren't ones that attract golfers from a neighbouring county, let alone future afield.

A broken clock gets it right twice a day.

I couldn't disagree more.
Many, many fo my favorite courses were designed by Braid (for awhile there I thought he got too much credit as he couldn't have been very involved in many of the prolific Number of courses he is credited with)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2014, 07:37:54 PM »
Thanks so much for these pre Buda updates and pictures.  I wish my plane left tomorrow.

Lynn, ooooh, pick your 4somes partner very carefully at Perranporth.  A short hitting fairway finder may serve you well  :D

Ryan

I fear our tastes in architecture are very different.  First it was St Enodoc's 10th and now its all 18 at Perranporth.  What next, the Dell?  You are a hard task master  8)

Ciao



Ciao

"A short hitting fairway finder."  That is me!
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2014, 07:43:08 PM »
Thanks so much for these pre Buda updates and pictures.  I wish my plane left tomorrow.

Lynn, ooooh, pick your 4somes partner very carefully at Perranporth.  A short hitting fairway finder may serve you well  :D

Ryan

I fear our tastes in architecture are very different.  First it was St Enodoc's 10th and now its all 18 at Perranporth.  What next, the Dell?  You are a hard task master  8)

Ciao



Ciao

"A short hitting fairway finder."  That is me!

Lynn, oh, find a good chipper/putter then  :D

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

ward peyronnin

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 10:32:06 PM »
I agree that Mr Braid is in my mind one of the most underrated archies.

Saunton is superb as is St Enodoc as is Pennard, Brora and others I do not feel obliged recall to justify this statement.

Sean you take the gentlemens tack when observing you simply disagree. I do not see a place for such a dismissive attitude of careless contempt when Ryan tosses out generalities and provides little specific in what is deficient in Mr Braid's body of work. Borders on negligent rudeness
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Bill_McBride

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2014, 10:37:24 PM »
I agree that Mr Braid is in my mind one of the most underrated archies.

Saunton is superb as is St Enodoc as is Pennard, Brora and others I do not feel obliged recall to justify this statement.

Sean you take the gentlemens tack when observing you simply disagree. I do not see a place for such a dismissive attitude of careless contempt when Ryan tosses out generalities and provides little specific in what is deficient in Mr Braid's body of work. Borders on negligent rudeness

"negligent rudeness" is a great call, Wardo. 

Sean_A

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 03:41:36 AM »
I agree that Mr Braid is in my mind one of the most underrated archies.

Saunton is superb as is St Enodoc as is Pennard, Brora and others I do not feel obliged recall to justify this statement.

Sean you take the gentlemens tack when observing you simply disagree. I do not see a place for such a dismissive attitude of careless contempt when Ryan tosses out generalities and provides little specific in what is deficient in Mr Braid's body of work. Borders on negligent rudeness

Chez Wardo

Well, Braid was involved in a lot mundane design.  That was the nature of the beast when working on a budget and often having to use existing holes or add to them.  Braid didn't get much high profile work (the Oxbridge set unsurprisingly got most of this work), Carnoustie and Gleneagles probably being the most famous, maybe Wallasey as well.  My point was more that given good land and/or time and money, Braid's work stacks up with the best of the era.  I can understand if folks don't like the more extreme examples of his work, but there is no doubting they are packed with character and inventiveness - elements sorely lacking in a lot of big name courses.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 06:00:56 AM »
I'm a Perranporth fan. Not sure I could play it every day though, but several times a month would be quite nice. I can understand however, how if you first played it in vile conditions or were playing terribly and lost quite a few balls you could develop a real 'hate complex' about the course. I have a couple of golf friends who feel that way and will not return. I have more golf friends though who feel the opposite way and just adore the course and always speak of it with glowing compliments. Marmite?

I've just referred back to my course planner of Perranporth - only 11 bunkers on the course.

As to James Braid, I cannot help but wonder, hypothetical though, what other architects of the same generation would have come up with given some of the land he had to use. Great imagination. Not just Perranporth but the likes Welshpool and other 'querkies' elsewhere and boy did he get around the UK a bit. I believe Harry Vardon had an exhibition contract with one of the railways companies. Did Braid also at one time I wonder? Some top level 'upgrades' by JB as well what with the likes of Carnoustie and Royal Aberdeen.

As to the photos in the thread, they're super Sean. Well done. I love the angles of many of them. Nice line about the par-3 4th being probably best played as a two-shotter. Like it. There are a few more par-3's around that this playing strategy would be well followed on. Nice line about the tiny/evil par-3 6th too - "Don't be short, don't be long, don't be left. Be right."

As an aside about par-3's, I saw some analysis recently of a couple of men's amateur competitions and how many shots handicap players averaged over their handicaps on par-5's par-4's and par-3's. Interestingly, it certainly surprised me, the biggest ratio of over-handicap shots was on the par-3's. Not so surprising I guess if the par-3's are like the 4th and 6th holes at Perranporth! :)

atb
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 06:09:12 AM by Thomas Dai »

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2014, 07:13:16 AM »
I agree that Mr Braid is in my mind one of the most underrated archies.

Saunton is superb as is St Enodoc as is Pennard, Brora and others I do not feel obliged recall to justify this statement.

Sean you take the gentlemens tack when observing you simply disagree. I do not see a place for such a dismissive attitude of careless contempt when Ryan tosses out generalities and provides little specific in what is deficient in Mr Braid's body of work. Borders on negligent rudeness

Braid's best courses are as good as anywhere. He has however done dozens you've never played or would want to play. I speak as I find.

Just because the courses are old, and the designer is long since dead, it shouldn't restrict someone from giving an opinion. I didn't see you chiming in to reign in the forthright views over Tom Fazio'a credentials - he's done a few good ones as well but gets a lot worse than Braid got from me, without any of your pious, faux consternation.

As for negligence, who designed Saunton?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 07:50:19 AM by Ryan Coles »

John Mayhugh

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 07:39:51 AM »
Looks anything but boring.   Hate missing out on Buda this year.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 08:09:25 AM »
John, we hate you missing out on BUDA too!
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 08:21:16 AM »
Ryan,
When Mr. Fazio builds even one course that captivates me like Brora, Pennard, Wallasey, Boat of Garten, St. Enodoc, Fortrose and Rosemarkie, Saunton, or Murcar, I will gladly seek out more of his work.

No doubt Braid may have been credited with many courses that may well be considered mundane (I haven't played any but I'll certainly take your word for it)
he strikes me a s someone who made incredible use of the given time and land he was afforded at each site.

I'm one who rarely even knows the architect of a course in adavance, and I'm always shocked at how often James Braid is the architect of record or had a hand in at a course I play  and love or really like.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 09:22:01 AM »
You can say many things about Perranporth, but not that you will be bored or lack great views.

A course everyone needs to have played once in his life, then you can decide if you want to come back fro more!

PS. Here is an extensive photo tour I made of the course last month http://ivgd.smugmug.com/Golf-Architecture-Pictures/England/Perranporth/

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2014, 11:15:35 AM »
For those who know Braid better than I, perhaps you could clarify if his reputation for routing and advising but spending less time with the detail is justified?

If this is the case then I suspect his modern day equivalent is Eddie Hackett.

Give them a good piece of land and they produce excellent work (because their routings are good). Give them a poorer piece of land and the bones are there but sometimes the detail can be less than inspiring. In Hackett's case, this was often because of budget and because the final construction was homemade so depended on the skill of the construction crew. Was the same true with Braid?
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 11:17:17 AM by Ally Mcintosh »

Richard Hetzel

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2014, 12:12:20 PM »
Awesome pics Sean. That course looks like a pretty fun, you keep on finding hidden gems.
Last Ten Played: 
Donald Ross Course French Lick (IN), Covered Bridge (IN), The Trout Club (OH), Elkhorn Ridge (SD), Bully Pulpit (ND), Links of ND, Hawktree (ND), Dakota Winds (ND), Links Lawsonia (WI), Connemara (KY)
Top 5 this year:
Yale
Culver
Hawktree
Charleston Municipal
Streamsong Blue

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2014, 02:31:43 PM »
Time for a cross-reference to the recent interview with John Moreton, author of“The Golf Courses of James Braid” and "James Braid and his Four Hundred Golf Courses" - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-john-moreton/
atb

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2014, 08:31:29 PM »
For those who know Braid better than I, perhaps you could clarify if his reputation for routing and advising but spending less time with the detail is justified?

If this is the case then I suspect his modern day equivalent is Eddie Hackett.

Give them a good piece of land and they produce excellent work (because their routings are good). Give them a poorer piece of land and the bones are there but sometimes the detail can be less than inspiring. In Hackett's case, this was often because of budget and because the final construction was homemade so depended on the skill of the construction crew. Was the same true with Braid?

Ally

A good question.

Braid was prolific to say the least. His best are incredibly good. No argument from me there.

He also has his name to quite a lot of mundane, run of the mill. It can be argued that you should be judged on the full body of work. I love Brora more than I can express. Unlike most in this thread I have played a lot that are not headliners. Now you can praise Braid to the hilltops for the highlights, but to do so, is to selectively disregard a good deal of what I will diplomatically describe as not great.

And for our so called officiando's, Saunton is the work of Herbert Fowler. Who doesn't get anything like enough credit for his achievements.

Unless of course there is a Braid course in the Braunton burrows that I've somehow missed.

Garland Bayley

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Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2014, 09:27:34 PM »
Ally,

It just seems to me that in Braid's time there was so little equipment to use in building the course that the result very much depended on the land you were given.

According to Darwin's biography of him, his mind was superb. He could walk a piece of property, then go home and send back detailed plans for the golf course after he had time to draw them up.

I think Ryan is missing the boat in his criticisms, because many properties could not be that great for golf.


"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2014, 09:55:35 PM »
Seems to me as if we want it both ways.

Braid's best were down to his ingenuity. The 75% that were unremarkable, were down to the land he had to work with.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Pecularities of PERRANPORTH GC
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 02:23:45 AM »
I am certainly no expert on Braid, but it is my impression he was mainly an archie for the "lower golfing classes".  There was a definite class division back in 1900 to whenever.  It is no surprise that Colt, Fowler, Simpson and to a lesser degree Dr Mac are in the main associated with what were at the time wealthier clubs.  The golfing professionals in the main catered to less ambitious or not as highly placed clubs.  To me, this goes a long way to explaining Braid's role in architecture.  Once in a while Braid nabbed what we would today consider a prime commission.  In a way Ryan is right, when we look at what we think is in the ground left by Braid, much of it is uninspiring work.  Compared to Colt for instance, who was also prolific, Braid's body of work fails to measure up.  That said, I think back in the day it was more important than today to work on good golfing land.   Colt had a lot of great commissions from which he produced some of the seminal works of architecture.  That said, there is definitely a whimsical side of Braid that Colt never came close to matching because Colt was far more measured in his approach which also means he likely didn't chase many jobs on goofy land.  At the end of the day, we can compare Braid to other archies, but its a bit unreasonable to suggest Braid's body of work should measure up to the Oxbridge set when he often didn't get the land or budget to produce a fine course.  I think this is why its reasonable to talk about his best work.  Afterall, only wing nuts like me talk about Colt's less grand designs (but every bit as architecturally sound) and even I can see that Colt ran out of ideas (impossible not to when we consider how much work the man did).  Most folks, even on this site, don't give these designs a second thought, so why worry about comparing total bodies of work?  Lets be thankful that the Colts of design didn't get all these odd ball jobs because I think architecture would be worse off today if that were the case.

Ciao    
New plays planned for 2022: Erewash, St Pats, The Loop x2, Arcadia Bluffs South, Lawsonia Links, Shoreacres, Culver Academies, Meadowbrook, Dunes Club & Crystal Downs

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