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Stewart Abramson

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2023, 05:47:48 PM »
Yesterday the Golf Channel had a segment about Langston golf course a muni in DC. It was among the first, if not the first, course open to African Americans and has a very interesting history as a bastion of golf for African Americans. The segment is worth looking for

MCirba

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #51 on: February 23, 2023, 06:20:10 PM »
I'm a self-professed "muni rat" and I've played about 3 of every 4 courses mentioned here so far which is scarily obsessive compulsive.   ;)

Off the top of my head I'd say don't neglect Denver, Salt Lake City, Baltimore, or the state of Maine in your muni hunt.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Rich Thomas

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2023, 02:01:16 PM »
Thank you everyone who has come forward with ideas of places to look at and dig into. I really do appreciate the help and insights that everyone on this site has given me. Please feel free to reach out if something else comes to mind. Thank you.


Rich

Garland Bayley

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #53 on: February 27, 2023, 01:11:45 PM »
Eastmoreland Golf Course in Portland, OR is an E. Chandler Egan design. Egan is credited for work that brought Pebble Beach into prominence and also for designing three courses where the US Public Links championship was held, Eastmoreland, West Seattle, and Indian Canyon which hosted two times.

An interesting story about Eastmoreland is that its inclusive membership allowed Bill Wright to establish a handicap so that in 1959 he could become the first black American to win the Public Links championship. Bill was a Seattle Washington resident, but no Washington course would allow him to establish a handicap there, so his father set it up for him to play at Eastmoreland to establish a handicap, which of course was required to participate in a USGA championship.

http://www.eastmoreland100.com/read-stories/bill-wright-the-1959-usga-public-links-champion-from-eastmoreland
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Greg Hohman

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #54 on: March 12, 2023, 09:38:30 AM »
Schenley Park in Pittsburgh began with nine holes in 1897 and was 18 by 1903. Renamed the Bob O'Connor ("The Bob") in honor of a mayor, its website says it's walking only. A quirky routing, including street crossings. Views of the Oakland section of town, most prominently the University of Pittsburgh's Cathedral of Learning. Sounds from Forbes Field audible back in the day?
newmonumentsgc.com

MCirba

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #55 on: March 12, 2023, 10:09:49 AM »
Played both Eastmoreland and Schenley.   Love courses in urban neighborhoods and each has their own character.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

John Challenger

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #56 on: March 12, 2023, 12:07:44 PM »
Winnetka Golf Club was William Langford's first solo effort. He may have started working on it in 1914. The 9-hole course opened in 1917. I believe he added 9 holes in 1922. It's been through a few renovations so I am not sure how much Langford is left. The course was redeveloped in the 1930s by C.D. Wagstaff and Chick Evans, the first player to win the U.S. Amateur and the U.S. Open in the same year. Only one other player ever accomplished that feat. It was the grand slam winner!

Langford also designed the club's 9-hole Par 3 course that I grew up playing. Rode four blocks on my bike to the golf course. My brother and I had a newspaper route and we delivered papers to homes on the adjacent streets, including to one in the middle of the property that the Langford routed the Par 3 course around. It opened in 1961. It might have been the last course Langford designed in his life.

It would be extraordinary to see the village restore the courses to their Langford original designs!

Richard_Mandell

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #57 on: March 16, 2023, 01:52:31 PM »
Rich,


I've done a bunch of work on iconic municipal courses over the last decade, including


Bacon Park in Savannah
Keller Golf Course in St. Paul
A new Braemar Golf Course in Edina, Minnesota
Tanglewood Championship Course in Clemmons, NC


as well as currently working on Bobby Jones Golf Club in Sarasota (under construction), Hollywood Beach Golf Club in Hollywood, Florida, Kennedy Golf Course in Denver, and the Woodlands and Hamptons Golf Courses in Hampton, Virginia.  I have spent a lot of time with the golfers themselves walking all these courses, gaining a good perspective on what Mike Keiser would refer to as the retail golfer.  Yet these aren't necessarily the same ones he serves at his public courses.  These are golfers who bleed for the their municipal homes, much like many of the GCAers here have already expressed.  I would love to share with you when you get further into your idea.




Matthew Rose

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #58 on: March 16, 2023, 11:13:49 PM »
Kennedy Golf Course in Denver,

Oh I look forward to this. Badly needed.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Joe Perches

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2023, 12:41:39 AM »
When I think of "muni" I think of Kahuku Golf Course on Oahu. I've golfed with many locals and many of them wrinkle their nose and say "You drove all the way up there to play that place?!?!?"
Thanks Cal, I'm very impressed.  Wonderful pictures.  Did you ever post your Landmand shots?

Bill Gayne

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2023, 06:01:22 AM »
Rich,


I don't think it's been mentioned yet but a muni whose past might be worth further investigation is North Fulton Golf Club (AKA Chastian Park). When I took up the game in the late 80s would play most of my golf at North Fulton and heard all kinds of stories about big matches and money games among professionals and locals leading up to the Masters. Although most of the people who told those stories are probably dead by now there may be a few of them left. I believe it was originally designed by Chandler Egan on a decent piece of land.


Bill

MCirba

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2023, 10:21:51 AM »
North Fulton has quite a number of excellent holes.   Conditions when I played back when are sketchy, at best, but the bones are quite good.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Richard_Mandell

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2023, 11:15:00 AM »
You know, North Fulton Golf Course is one of my all-time favorites.  When I lived in Atlanta (from 1991-1996), I played there all the time and it actually influenced much of my design philosophy about how fairway contours are the most "equalizing" of all hazards.  For instance, if I recall the fourth hole (or maybe it is 13 now?), it was a short par four with an elevated tee playing down into a valley and then back up to an even more elevated green with a road down the right side.


Standing on the tee, the fairway was wide and open and had no bunkers.  But what it had was a small plateau along the straight line from tee to green that was position A for anyone who wanted to make birdie.  So it took a very accurate tee shot to hit this target but you were rewarded with a fifty to eighty yard pitch with an almost eye-level view of the putting surface.  But if you missed the target, then you rolled all the way down to the bottom of the valley and had a longer, uphill approach to a blind green from that angle.


For the better golfers, it was a great challenge with great reward. But if you were less-skilled, it was wide-open and didn't present too many problems.  Most likely, the lesser-skilled didn't even notice the existence of that small plateau.


So, to me, that is what I would call an excellent golf hole that challenges all skill levels, certainly those looking for a challenge, without doling out undue penalty.

Matthew Lloyd

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2023, 12:30:02 PM »
Rich - a muni to look into: a 9 hole course in Venice Beach called Penmar. Part of the city of LA group of courses. Made the news in the last decade when Harrison Ford crashed his vintage plane there, but it's a fun course and important to the area.


Rancho Park in LA is another muni gem with some interesting history when it briefly hosted the LA Open. It is across the street from Hillcrest CC (which is discussed a decent bit on this site it seems) and the 20th Century Fox Studios. Morgan Freeman used to play a lot at Rancho - that doesn't matter for architecture purposes, of course, but adds to the local lore.


MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY ---- I have played Gibson Woods (a really fun course) and know very well how great the local high school team is there. I went to law school with Scott McClintock, who is the best golfer I've ever played with. Playing at Gibson Woods was hilarious - every player there appeared to be scratch level, all the way down to the guys wearing jean shirts and tanktops (at least the day I was there). Every single guy was a great golfer. It was like stumbling onto the set of TIN CUP. One of the more entertaining weekends of golf I've ever experienced.


But I can confirm both the design merits of Gibson Woods, as well as the colorful local history.

DFarron

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2023, 01:00:49 PM »
Rackham, originally designed by Donald Ross, in the Detroit suburb of Huntington Woods



Rackham Ben Davis memorabila in club house




Rackham Ben Davis memorabila in cub house



Ben Davis....he was a legend....my dad bought my first set from him

DFarron

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2023, 01:20:54 PM »
Twin Falls Muni in Twin Falls, Idaho might be interesting. Recently they honored with a statue and plaque the Hiskey brothers.Babe, was an All-American at North Texas State, played both the PGA and Champions tour for many years and was the first tour player to win playing Ping irons.Jim was an All-American at Houston and played the tour for several years before going into the ministry, he helped start the PGA Tour Chapel, a traveling church for tour players.Sonny was considered to be the best of the 3, was an All-American at North Texas State but tragically was killed in an Air Force training mission.

John Bouffard

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2023, 01:31:34 PM »
Hey all...this may be a little off topic architecturally, but I am looking to start a project to tell the stories from what I consider to be the heartbeat of American golf. I'm looking for stories about municipal golf courses to tell. I want to tell stories of the courses and the people. I am looking for lesser known historically significant courses, to courses with great architecture, and courses with unusual stories and people.
For example, I grew up playing a course in West Central Illinois in the middle of nowhere called Gibson Woods. It's a Homer Fieldhouse layout in the city park. The course has hosted a President, is the home of a major champion, and arguably the home of one of the most successful high school golf programs in the state boasting multiple individual and team state champions from 1980-2002.
We are all familiar with the big name munis like Bethpage, Torrey, and Chambers Bay, and those in the know, are aware of Swope Memorial, Sharps Park, Brackenridge Park, and Winter Park. I was hoping some you would know of some stories, characters, and courses that are worth putting on paper. If anyone is willing to share, I would be very grateful. I know this is going to be a long project and I am just starting to get some ideas in motion, but I have the time and hopefully will have the ability to see this project through.
Again, in advance, thank you for your ideas and help.


Rich


This sounds like a great project. I've always wanted something similar done about military base golf courses. This is where I learned to play. They are close cousins to Munis, and they trigger great memories in me. The Cypress Tree golf course at Maxwell Air Force Base was a great example. Two courses, west and east. The west course had 2 or 3 consecutive holes (it's been a few years...) bordering an active runway. Every year there was an air show, and if you golfed that day, jets were roaring over your head seemingly just over the tree line.


I got my first ever eagle on that course in 1991, holing out with a 7 iron on the 18th hole of the west course, a shot of about 150 yards, over a shaggy-edged canyon. I kept the ball for years.

Will Thrasher

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #67 on: November 09, 2023, 11:58:41 AM »
Stevens Park in Dallas and Eastmoreland in Portland come to mind as good ones to check out. Very much enjoyed playing both places.
Twitter: @will_thrasher_

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #68 on: November 09, 2023, 02:15:03 PM »
The Cypress Tree golf course at Maxwell Air Force Base was a great example. Two courses, west and east. The west course had 2 or 3 consecutive holes (it's been a few years...) bordering an active runway. Every year there was an air show, and if you golfed that day, jets were roaring over your head seemingly just over the tree line.


I got my first ever eagle on that course in 1991, holing out with a 7 iron on the 18th hole of the west course, a shot of about 150 yards, over a shaggy-edged canyon. I kept the ball for years.


I believe the courses are now closed.  Tough to compete with the RTJ trails courses that offer great military rates.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2023, 10:25:43 PM by Joe_Tucholski »

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #69 on: November 09, 2023, 02:18:21 PM »
Twin Falls Muni in Twin Falls, Idaho might be interesting. Recently they honored with a statue and plaque the Hiskey brothers.Babe, was an All-American at North Texas State, played both the PGA and Champions tour for many years and was the first tour player to win playing Ping irons.Jim was an All-American at Houston and played the tour for several years before going into the ministry, he helped start the PGA Tour Chapel, a traveling church for tour players.Sonny was considered to be the best of the 3, was an All-American at North Texas State but tragically was killed in an Air Force training mission.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

John Bouffard

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2023, 12:27:28 PM »
The Cypress Tree golf course at Maxwell Air Force Base was a great example. Two courses, west and east. The west course had 2 or 3 consecutive holes (it's been a few years...) bordering an active runway. Every year there was an air show, and if you golfed that day, jets were roaring over your head seemingly just over the tree line.


I got my first ever eagle on that course in 1991, holing out with a 7 iron on the 18th hole of the west course, a shot of about 150 yards, over a shaggy-edged canyon. I kept the ball for years.


Cypress Tree is still open...but judging from the website it's only 1 course now, the west. I don't think there are any RTJ courses in Montgomery. I think the closest is Prattville, which is about 30 minutes away.


At least when I was on active duty (mid 80's-2004), military golf courses were a far better deal than anything else. You typically played 18 holes for $10-15, depending on the quality of the course and in some cases your rank. And they were less crowded than local munis. 

I believe the courses are now closed.  Tough to compete with the RTJ trails courses that offer great military rates.

Joe_Tucholski

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2023, 01:57:15 PM »
Cypress Tree is still open...but judging from the website it's only 1 course now, the west. I don't think there are any RTJ courses in Montgomery. I think the closest is Prattville, which is about 30 minutes away.


At least when I was on active duty (mid 80's-2004), military golf courses were a far better deal than anything else. You typically played 18 holes for $10-15, depending on the quality of the course and in some cases your rank. And they were less crowded than local munis. 


John I was stationed at Maxwell and left in 2020.  One course on Maxwell was open at that time but it shut down within the last year.  Maybe you are looking at an unofficial page, check out the 42d FSS page. They still have a driving range with top tracer tech.  It's surprisingly expensive at $35-$45/hr, but you get the bay so a group of 6 can split the cost. 


I lived in the Heights apartment between downtown and the gate. It took me less than 15 minutes to get to RTJ Capitol Hill in Prattville.  I played the course on Maxwell once.  I don't remember exact costs but it was within $10 of the military rate at Capitol Hill and the quality of the courses at Capitol Hill were worth it. 

Rich Thomas

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #72 on: March 09, 2024, 12:21:48 PM »
Hey all...I've been absent from here for a while due to some life changes. I am looking at getting back to this project very soon. I have gone back and re-read the thread and all the wonderful ideas from everyone. I am looking forward to getting this started. I am currently in Nashville, left Las Vegas last summer and my wife and I are living the RV life 4-5 months at a time. Hopefully that gives me the ability to get out and experience some of these places and learn their stories. Again, thank you for the support and great ideas.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #73 on: March 09, 2024, 12:59:59 PM »
I think Five Ponds in Warminster, Bucks County, PA deserves some attention. Usually, very busy and in good condition:

https://5pondsgc.com/

https://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/FivePonds/index.html
Another course in the Philly suburbs is Jeffersonville, a Donald Ross creation.
https://www.jeffersonvillegolfclub.org/layout/

https://www.myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/Jeffersonville_2022/index.html
 

« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 01:04:21 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Cal Carlisle

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Re: The American Muni
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2024, 09:53:07 AM »
Kahuku Golf Course on Oahu comes to mind.

You can get some background here.

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