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Ira Fishman

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #125 on: May 13, 2023, 10:43:43 AM »
Tom,


When you were planning the green complexes and shaping, was Ross and particularly Number 2 in the back of your mind?


Ira

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #126 on: May 13, 2023, 10:55:44 PM »
Tom,


When you were planning the green complexes and shaping, was Ross and particularly Number 2 in the back of your mind?


Ira
Ira,


When Tom gave Paul Rudovsky and I a tour it even included Tom giving Eric Iverson his thoughts for a green that hadnít yet been designed, much less built. Listening to Tom I got the feeling what he expressed fit for that green site. I certainly donít recall any reference to Ross on that hole or any other.


Tom obviously respects the Ross Pinehurst tradition, but in my opinion #10 will be #10 not #2. This applies to the property as well as the architecture.

Tim Weiman

Tom_Doak

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #127 on: May 13, 2023, 11:52:58 PM »

When you were planning the green complexes and shaping, was Ross and particularly Number 2 in the back of your mind?



Ira:


Yes, but more in the sense that we ought to do something different than Ross did, instead of copying him, considering that the area in general and the resort in particular has so many Donald Ross greens!  It would be kind of silly to copy the greens of #2 on a course four miles away from it . . . just like I didn't want to build a Redan hole at Sebonack when the best one in the world was a couple hundred yards from our ninth tee.


One thought I had early on was that while Pinehurst has a lot of raised greens it doesn't have any that resemble punchbowls, even though the ground is sandy enough to make a low green work.  So, I made a point of looking for a couple of green sites that sat down low in the terrain:  the 5th and 6th sit in little bowls, the 9th is on a saddle, and the 3rd is a fallaway green at grade.  We really have just tried to make the greens as varied as we can, and I think it's a really good mix of styles.


That's not to say we haven't gone and walked around Pinehurst #2 occasionally for inspiration . . . more in terms of the fairway widths and the bunkering than the greens, but our 13th and 18th greens borrow a little from course #2.

Peter Sayegh

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #128 on: May 14, 2023, 10:37:51 AM »
I got a laugh how they swerved from the first hole to the third fairway!  The second hole is still a work in progress.
Tom (or those who have walked it):
If I followed the video correctly, can you comment on the fourth hole?
It's sandy areas are jarring/striking from above.
Do I see a "pot" bunker, a "wok" bunker, and an Engh-like "scar" bunker in the same frame?
Just looked unique to me.
Thanks.


Kalen Braley

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #129 on: May 14, 2023, 02:12:45 PM »
Tom,

I like the punch bowl idea, they seem to always be fun whether you're going to a frat party or golfing.

P.S.  Are there any downsides to sodding, other than the obvious of additional expense?

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #130 on: May 15, 2023, 01:42:26 AM »
Kalen,




My considerations (Tomís may be more or different):



Using sod will get a course in to play quicker but once in play, I find it usually takes a little longer to provide a perfect playing surface. This is not really an issue on fairways but is definitely a consideration on greens.


It looks like Tom is seeding the greens. This will mean the team have had to work that little bit harder on the tie-ins between green and surrounds as even in sand, the topsoil canít all be shaped smoothly as one (sod having a thickness to consider, seed having none).


Only other thing I would concern myself about is bringing ďforeignĒ bought in sod onto a site is almost never as good as using local sod harvested from the same site / soil. Sounds like Tom doesnít have that problem hereÖ

Tom_Doak

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #131 on: May 15, 2023, 07:07:45 PM »
If I followed the video correctly, can you comment on the fourth hole?
It's sandy areas are jarring/striking from above.
Do I see a "pot" bunker, a "wok" bunker, and an Engh-like "scar" bunker in the same frame?



There are a variety of bunkers out there, this was one of the first holes shaped and we were still very much experimenting with a style.  [I'm not sure we have settled on anything in particular!]  I haven't tried to name them all, but I think the "scar" must be the bunker I added to the right of the green [which I expanded over there], and if so, that's the first time my work has been compared to Jim Engh's.  I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Stewart Abramson

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Mike Feeney

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #133 on: May 17, 2023, 12:52:34 PM »
At the 1:38 mark of the video Stewart posted, there is a large mound with a square plateau'ed top...flanked by smaller rounded mounds fronting a green complex.Wonder TD's inspiration for this and the length of the hole.  Looks like fun.
The beauty/luxury of having an abundance of sand!

Dean DiBerardino

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #134 on: May 17, 2023, 04:59:24 PM »
Check out the recent (May 12) drone flyover video below from Zig Golf...

https://youtu.be/maz8qHz2M9g

Tom_Doak

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Re: Pinehurst No 10 - New Tom Doak design
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2023, 08:54:54 PM »
At the 1:38 mark of the video Stewart posted, there is a large mound with a square plateau'ed top...flanked by smaller rounded mounds fronting a green complex.Wonder TD's inspiration for this and the length of the hole.  Looks like fun.
The beauty/luxury of having an abundance of sand!


The square thing was the 4th tee at The Pit, which is now short and left of the green on our 8th hole.  We are still going to whittle away at that to give it a more natural shape, but it will make the approach blind from the left side of the fairway.

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