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Jake McCarty

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Which courses have Zoysia grass
« on: October 31, 2022, 04:32:13 PM »
Just curious which courses have Zoysia grass, as I just love playing off it. I wonder why more courses don't use it, but if I had to guess, it's significantly more expensive/newer.

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2022, 04:36:34 PM »
It usually grows slowly, so it is often sodded, resulting in over a Million Dollars in extra cost.  All that sod does make for a nice grow in insurance policy, however.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Buck Wolter

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2022, 04:42:11 PM »
Move to St Louis -- almost everything there is. Great in the summer, waterlogged when it goes dormant. Never have to take a divot -- like playing on a tee everywhere.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Jake McCarty

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2022, 04:45:44 PM »
I know Bluejack has Zoysia and Red Feather will have Zoysia, and I can tell you the drainage system at Red Feather might be one of the most interesting in golf, if people are into that level of detail!

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2022, 05:29:14 PM »
Off the top of my head, The Farm in Dalton, GA, the Greensboro CC Farm course, and now Old Chatham, which just reopened after responding their fairways with zoysia.


I think the common element among zoysia courses is not having excessive play.  Nothing grows at the rate of hybrid Bermudas, so those grasses fare better on busy courses.


But as a playing surface, zoysia is probably as good as it gets.  In fact, there is some “conventional wisdom” that handicaps from zoysia courses don’t always travel well because players only hit off perfect lies.  I don’t know if that’s true or not; could be envy?
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

jeffwarne

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2022, 06:39:38 PM »
Wow.
I've only played off it in winter, and it's deplorable IMHO-at least around the greens.
Far less chance to bump and run a ball compared to dormant bermuda.
It can be quite fast(once rolling) when dormant, but rarely firm or bouncy.
Have never played off it in summer, and for the life of me have a hard time seeing why any club in a warm weather bermuda climate(deep south) would use it when a lot of golf is played when it's dormant.
Perhaps there's a way to make it less thatchy/grainy before it goes dormant, but my experience with has been poor.


Sure the ball sits up in summer, but what grass isn't good to play off in summer...


A very good playing club pro who plays and teaches on it regularly says he's never seen so many chips and pitches travel one foot(as in from address-as in chunk city) in late winter.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 07:46:01 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2022, 07:35:17 PM »
Trinity Forest does and it's pretty great.

John Emerson

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2022, 09:32:41 PM »
Valhalla just installed zoysia fwys. In the Midwest zoysia is everywhere. From my experience, zoysia is often not managed properly. Over fertilized and/or under cultivated.
“There’s links golf, then everything else.”

Jim_Coleman

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2022, 09:35:39 PM »
    Philly Cricket regrassed it’s mini course in Chestnut Hill with zoysia.  The ‘07 and ‘10 US Opens were held at that site.

PCCraig

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2022, 10:09:48 PM »
Bellerive! As a guy with a shallow swing I love Zoysia!
H.P.S.

archie_struthers

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2022, 10:42:16 PM »
 8)


Eb Steiniger was the long time super at Pine Valley ....and a living legend when I arrived there in 1976  He was intrigued with the possibilities of zoysia and experimented with it extensively. It didn't really make the grade and eventually was removed. Pernicious it was and tough to remove.


I think the GOAT of all superintendents to me , Dick Bator eventually scared it all to death in the early 80's

Michael Wolf

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2022, 12:51:01 AM »
Isn't the most notable zoysia course Peachtree?


Also The Ledges in Huntsville. I believe they had trouble with an early strain of fairway zoysia that was invading the fronts of some of  their greens.


Michael

Anthony_Nysse

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2022, 06:42:23 AM »
Atlanta Athletic Club, The Honors Course, Peachtree, East Lake, Dallas National, Briggs Ranch, Cordilla Ranch, Alotian, Olde Stone, Carmel CC, Bluejack, Trinity Forrest, Escondito, Preston Trail, [/size]The Troubadour, Biltmore Forest, CC of NC, Payne's Valley, Bellerive, Reynold's Plantation, The Grove 23, Timaquana, TPC Sugarloaf, Rio Olympic Course, Hyde Park, St. Martin's Course @ Philly Cricket, Valhalla, Vaquero, Whispering Pines, Mission Hills, Hurstborne, Flint Hills National to name a few....[/color]
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Dave Doxey

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2022, 08:55:15 AM »
Bristow Manor in northern Virginia is a nice public with zoysia.

Tim Gavrich

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2022, 09:10:25 AM »
Zoysia has a distinct and (to my nose, anyway) pleasant aroma, I've noticed.


Played the (George) Fazio Course at Palmetto Dunes on Hilton Head Island Saturday morning and their Diamond Zoysia greens were shockingly good. Not crazy-fast but good-enough speed and perfect roll.


Most places I've seen it in fairways, the physical structure of the grass does seem to prevent ground-game shots around greens.


I like it on par-3 tee boxes.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Richard Hetzel

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2022, 10:28:50 AM »
Just played Old Toccoa Farm GC in Northern Georgia this past weekend, it has Zoysia fairways. In the summer when the grass is not dormant it provides an awesome lie.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 06:40:38 PM by Richard Hetzel »
Last 10:
Erie GC (PA), Skyway GC (NJ), Ferry Point Links (NY), The Bridge (NY), Montauk Downs (NY), Totteridge GC (PA), Hillsboro Elks (OH), Smock GC (IN), Westbrook CC (OH), NCR CC - South (OH)

Will Spivey

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2022, 12:40:32 PM »
Atlanta Athletic Club, The Honors Course, Peachtree, East Lake, Dallas National, Briggs Ranch, Cordilla Ranch, Alotian, Olde Stone, Carmel CC, Bluejack, Trinity Forrest, Escondito, Preston Trail, The Troubadour, Biltmore Forest, CC of NC, Payne's Valley, Bellerive, Reynold's Plantation, The Grove 23, Timaquana, TPC Sugarloaf, Rio Olympic Course, Hyde Park, St. Martin's Course @ Philly Cricket, Valhalla, Vaquero, Whispering Pines, Mission Hills, Hurstborne, Flint Hills National to name a few....


You can add the Farm Course (Donald Steel) at Greensboro (NC) CC to that list.

Rob Marshall

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2022, 12:55:42 PM »
8)


Eb Steiniger was the long time super at Pine Valley ....and a living legend when I arrived there in 1976  He was intrigued with the possibilities of zoysia and experimented with it extensively. It didn't really make the grade and eventually was removed. Pernicious it was and tough to remove.


I think the GOAT of all superintendents to me , Dick Bator eventually scared it all to death in the early 80's


Dick is a Rochester guy. Helped to build Blue Heron. Never met him but his legend is huge.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Jason Hines

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2022, 01:41:20 PM »
Most of the courses here in Kansas City use zoysia - some of the newer courses have used bent as zoysia is very top dollar.  My understanding and others can correct:


We are too far north to seed it and have to sod.  Sanding divots does work -
We do get very hot, humid summers but we can also get 20-30 inches of snow and it can take winter better than the southern grasses.


Playing conditions:


Our northern grass rough thrives in the spring and fall while the zoysia goes dormant.  In the middle of summer the zoysia is at its peak while the northern grasses are gasping for breath.  Right now with lack of rain, it is a blast to play on but can get waterlogged after a rain when it is dormant.  In the dead of summer it is like velcro.


When I moved here 15 years ago from Omaha which mainly had bent grass fairways, it took awhile to not hit so steep on the ball.  Also as mentioned above, bump and run shots to the greens really don't exist.  My course was built in '89 and we are considering adding 15 yards of bent to each approach to give some playability around the greens - 9 months out of the year.


My club from 2 weeks ago:
« Last Edit: November 01, 2022, 02:46:48 PM by Jason Hines »

Max Prokopy

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2022, 02:39:52 PM »
It's fairly popular in the Va/NC areas.  I like playing off of it but have not ever seen it in combination with really firm conditions.  Perhaps something to do with the thatch?  I don't know, just an observation that the zoysia courses I know don't get firm. 

A.G._Crockett

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2022, 05:36:20 PM »
Atlanta Athletic Club, The Honors Course, Peachtree, East Lake, Dallas National, Briggs Ranch, Cordilla Ranch, Alotian, Olde Stone, Carmel CC, Bluejack, Trinity Forrest, Escondito, Preston Trail, The Troubadour, Biltmore Forest, CC of NC, Payne's Valley, Bellerive, Reynold's Plantation, The Grove 23, Timaquana, TPC Sugarloaf, Rio Olympic Course, Hyde Park, St. Martin's Course @ Philly Cricket, Valhalla, Vaquero, Whispering Pines, Mission Hills, Hurstborne, Flint Hills National to name a few....


You can add the Farm Course (Donald Steel) at Greensboro (NC) CC to that list.


I mentioned Greensboro CC Farm, and I think Steel renovated and regrassed an Ellis Maples original design. 
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Tim Martin

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2022, 08:15:26 PM »
    Philly Cricket regrassed it’s mini course in Chestnut Hill with zoysia.  The ‘07 and ‘10 US Opens were held at that site.


Jim-Do you know why Philly Cricket St. Martin’s chose zoysia?

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2022, 12:17:17 PM »



Eb Steiniger was the long time super at Pine Valley ....and a living legend when I arrived there in 1976  He was intrigued with the possibilities of zoysia and experimented with it extensively. It didn't really make the grade and eventually was removed. Pernicious it was and tough to remove.


I think the GOAT of all superintendents to me , Dick Bator eventually scared it all to death in the early 80's

Archie, There was some that survived. We removed it from the old range when they built the new one and used it on the Short Course banks and it performed well out there as it needed less work to keep alive.

    Philly Cricket regrassed it’s mini course in Chestnut Hill with zoysia.  The ‘07 and ‘10 US Opens were held at that site.


Jim-Do you know why Philly Cricket St. Martin’s chose zoysia?



I believe it was to help keep the maintenance costs lower as it needs less water, fert, chemicals in the summer. It was a great idea as with the type of play they get there, it didn't need to be as tight as the main courses.
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Bob Montle

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2022, 02:14:19 PM »
My local public course (NC) has four greens which are sodded Zoysia.
These four are the slowest greens on the course and are very grainy.
Most of us hate them despite their being very smooth.




"If you're the swearing type, golf will give you plenty to swear about.  If you're the type to get down on yourself, you'll have ample opportunities to get depressed.  If you like to stop and smell the roses, here's your chance.  Golf never judges; it just brings out who you are."

Terry Lavin

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Re: Which courses have Zoysia grass
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2022, 03:32:12 PM »

Stumbled onto this article that might be of some interest:



https://archive.lib.msu.edu/tic/holen/article/2000may5.pdf
« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 03:33:47 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

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