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Peter Pallotta

Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #325 on: May 25, 2022, 12:40:07 PM »
Some 50 years after the Professional Golfers Association was formed in the mid 1910s, golf's then biggest stars (Nicklaus and Palmer) led the charge to break with tradition and all that the PGA had done for professional golfers in order to create the PGA Tour -- because they felt they deserved a much bigger share of the pie, and wanted to make a lot more money. Now, after another 50 years, history was about to repeat itself -- except that Phil wasn't quite Arnie, Shipnuck wasn't quite Jenkins, the 'other league' was from Saudi Arabia and not from America, and Tiger had already made more money than God.

If St Andrew's tells us all we need to know about gca, then The Godfather tells us all we need to know about modern day life: "It's not personal, Sonny, it's only business".


« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 04:44:02 PM by PPallotta »

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #326 on: May 25, 2022, 06:37:47 PM »
Does the PGA Tour have strong legal footing when they dictate that it's OK to play in European or Asian events but not Saudi sanctioned tournaments?  I'd be very interested in knowing how the tour would defend lifetime bans in court if players play in Saudi sponsored events and get punished.


Is it normal for not for profit organizations to act so heavy handed?


Steve, the LIV Tour is planning on playing many events in the US which is a direct conflict with the PGA Tour. The tour has always been against players playing in conflicting events in the US?  I worked a mini-tour tournament in Portland back in the 90s. A PGA Tour player was friends with the organizer and wanted to play in it.  The Tour denied his request for an waiver. He played anyway and said they could fine him. I donít know if they did, but as he said, not one extra person was going to show up in Detroit if he played there whereas he could help his friendís event in Oregon.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #327 on: May 25, 2022, 07:02:46 PM »

Is it normal for not for profit organizations to act so heavy handed?


Yes.


This article out of Stanford make the argument that $50 million is the bar, but I have seen insanity at the $2-3 million level:


https://ssir.org/articles/entry/how_nonprofits_get_really_big


Autism Speaks was started for the benefit of Christian Wright, and his Mom no longer speaks to anyone at Autism Speaks.


Bob Huntley taught me years ago to only give money to small Mom & Pops.



"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If weíve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. Weíre no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #328 on: May 25, 2022, 10:16:28 PM »
I have not kept up with this thread but I would make a few comments and please excuse me if they have been made before.


There are quite a few members of the PGA Tour who have played in Saudi Arabia and in fact, I was listening to PGA Tour radio and they were saying how great it was that Harold Varner III had won in Saudi Arabia.  How about all of the events played by PGA Tour members as well as LPGA Tour members in China; China certainly does not have an exemplary record with respect o human rights.


So far as Phil is concerned I think that the PGA Tour owes him a great deal and should have quickly spoken with him about this and put it to rest.  I know how important Tiger was and is to the Tour but Phil is not far behind as he was always very approachable to the press and to the fans where Tiger was not.  Perhaps Phil has a gambling problem but Tiger certainly has had problems with respect to his personal life outside of his marriage. 


I really wish that the Commissioner would sit down with Phil and work this out as the fans miss him and love him and what he did last year at the PGA was one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of professional golf.

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #329 on: May 26, 2022, 03:18:18 AM »
I finished read the unauthorized biography of Phil and I must say, I really do not like the author. While I learned an awful lot about Phil, I grew to like him even more in spite of the negativity brought out by the author.


I personally think the author is an ASSHOLE for attempting to destroy Phil to sell a few books. We are all imperfect human being, we all make mistakes, Phil ran off at the mouth, and for that, he gets destroyed. Sorry, the consequences IMHO are way too severe. My book is going to be thrown in the trash, where is rightfully belongs.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #330 on: May 26, 2022, 08:11:35 AM »
There are quite a few members of the PGA Tour who have played in Saudi Arabia and in fact, I was listening to PGA Tour radio and they were saying how great it was that Harold Varner III had won in Saudi Arabia.  How about all of the events played by PGA Tour members as well as LPGA Tour members in China; China certainly does not have an exemplary record with respect o human rights.
One event sanctioned by the European (DP World?) Tour isn't the same as an entire Tour with several events in the U.S.

I know how important Tiger was and is to the Tour but Phil is not far behind as he was always very approachable to the press and to the fans where Tiger was not.

Phil regularly blew off the press, while Tiger almost never did.

I really wish that the Commissioner would sit down with Phil and work this out as the fans miss him and love him

Some fans never loved him. They always saw him as a phony. Many of his fellow players don't love him, either.


I personally think the author is an ASSHOLE for attempting to destroy Phil to sell a few books. We are all imperfect human being, we all make mistakes, Phil ran off at the mouth, and for that, he gets destroyed. Sorry, the consequences IMHO are way too severe. My book is going to be thrown in the trash, where is rightfully belongs.
Oy.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #331 on: May 26, 2022, 09:15:19 AM »
Put Shipnuck and his book aside for a moment; that is a separate issue.


Phil Mickelson has been involved in the organization of a rival tour, with events that will run simultaneously with the PGA Tourís own events.  This is undeniable; he said it himself.


In what world would a business not respond to that?  And really we donít even know for sure that the Tour HAS responded; we donít know whether PMís absence is a suspension or his own decision.  The Masters and the PGA are not even true Tour events; why did PM miss those? Fred Ridley said ANGC did NOT uninvite Phil.  And Phil said he was taking time off; I don't remember reading that the PGA of America banned him from Southern Hills. 


His sponsors dropped him because they thought he was bad for business, which is the other side of the coin of why they signed him in the first place. Itís just business in the most capitalistic sense of that phrase.  The Tour didnít do that, and the Tour canít fix that.


Mickelson is in this fix of his own doing, 100%. Thinking that the Tour, or Callaway et al, or Alan Shipnuck, are causes of his problems, or the fixes for them, is just silly.  If I drop an 8 lb sledge hammer on my foot, the guy at fault for my pain in easily findable; he's in the mirror at my house.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2022, 09:57:59 AM by A.G._Crockett »
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #332 on: May 26, 2022, 10:16:02 AM »
I stand by my contention that any of us or those we love could be taken down by the written word combined with the whisper of innuendo. If we donít speak up for a Phil who will be left to speak for us.


Even a Karen isnít afforded due process.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #333 on: May 26, 2022, 10:25:27 AM »
AG,

Well said all on all counts.

In response to Jerry comments, I don't know in what alternate reality there should be an expectation for the PGATour to sit down with Phil and help him get a direct rival/competitor up and running or accommodate him otherwise. Whether Phil acknowledges or not he's a dinosaur and everyone, especially the Tour bosses, know this.

P.S.  No matter how they try to spin it now with "its just a few events", the LIV tour was always a shot across the bow with Norman as General and Phil his right hand man...and this clearly wasn't Norman's first attempt nor likely his last.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #335 on: May 26, 2022, 10:37:07 AM »
I stand by my contention that any of us or those we love could be taken down by the written word combined with the whisper of innuendo. If we donít speak up for a Phil who will be left to speak for us.


Even a Karen isnít afforded due process.
Due process?  Seriously?  That has even less to do with this than the red herring of "free speech".  Which is nothing whatsoever...
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #336 on: May 26, 2022, 03:58:48 PM »
I have been to a few US Opens as well as probably 10 regular tour events and I always saw Phil as very personable and he had a rule that he would not give autographs before a round but he would stay for an hour or more after a round to sign autographs, etc. which I never saw Tiger do.  What I am suggesting is not that the Tour help him get the competition going.  What I am suggesting is that the Tour should recognize how much he has done for the Tour, and yes he certainly benefited from that relationship, and give him the opportunity to understand what they have problems with and see if he still wants to pursue a relationship with the LIV tour.  I don't know, maybe he feels that the competition has the right to go ahead and start a new tour and that may be the end of it but let's give a little consideration to a guy who was very helpful in making the PGA Tour as successful as it is today. 

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #337 on: May 26, 2022, 04:46:06 PM »
What I am suggesting is that the Tour should recognize how much he has done for the Tour
I think you and the Tour (and many other people) would be pretty far apart on whether the Tour or Phil have benefited the most there, and who "owes" who anything.

I would say that Tiger did more for the Tour and more for Phil Mickelson than Phil has ever done for the Tour. Phil did things for himself. He signed autographs because it helped his image. That doesn't change the fact that he did sign the autographs, but to pretend it was to "give to the Tour" is just as phony as Phil.

And I don't think the Tour owes a guy who tried to start a rival Tour anything. Phil has made his bed. Now he gets to lie in it.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #340 on: May 26, 2022, 05:05:47 PM »
Excellent interview with Alan Shipnuck here:

https://www.insider.com/phil-mickelson-biography-alan-shipnuck-interview-saudi-golf-league-2022-5

What a saint he is ..

Can't say i'm a fan of how this played out either.

He heavily disparages other writers for sitting on info, but he sat on the Phil conversation for 3 months (November to February) before he disclosed it the public.  I'm not buying the whole babe in the woods routine...

He is clearly cashing in on Phil's name, and that's fine and all, but to pretend he's an innocent bystander in all this is a joke...




John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #341 on: May 26, 2022, 05:09:06 PM »
I apologize to FPC member Laz if he found anything on this thread offensive. He drove me to Rustic and then made a hole-in-one for my entertainment. I feel like I've broken a brotherly code. Sorry my friend.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #343 on: May 26, 2022, 08:13:59 PM »
The guy wrote a book. What happens afterwards has everything to do with how people, including Phil, respond to the book. Shipnuck did not take Phil down....the public, and Phil, did.
He's nuttier than a squirrel turd.

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #344 on: May 26, 2022, 08:48:22 PM »
Thanks everyone, very interesting discussion, to sum it up, you are free to speak but live with the consequences.


Now for this question: What should Phil do now? He's 52, he can't really make significant money on the senior tour, his $50 million per year from sponsors is gone, should he sign with the Saudi Tour for $100 million and make a complete break or should he eat humble pie, beg for forgiveness, and try to get his fans and sponsors to rally around him?


A quick search shows his net worth is $400,000,000.00. I think he has sufficient bank for the rest of his life.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #345 on: May 26, 2022, 08:50:50 PM »
A quick search shows his net worth is $400,000,000.00. I think he has sufficient bank for the rest of his life.
That's essentially a complete guess, and a good chunk of that isn't anything close to liquid.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #346 on: May 27, 2022, 10:20:13 PM »
A quick search shows his net worth is $400,000,000.00. I think he has sufficient bank for the rest of his life.
That's essentially a complete guess, and a good chunk of that isn't anything close to liquid.


Does it matter? It's likely that if he never made another cent on the course, he's set for life.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #347 on: May 27, 2022, 10:46:44 PM »
Does it matter? It's likely that if he never made another cent on the course, he's set for life.
That may not be true.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, and Lifetime Student of the Game

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #348 on: May 28, 2022, 09:35:27 AM »
Thanks everyone, very interesting discussion, to sum it up, you are free to speak but live with the consequences.


I seriously doubt he has anywhere close to $400 million


Now for this question: What should Phil do now? He's 52, he can't really make significant money on the senior tour, his $50 million per year from sponsors is gone, should he sign with the Saudi Tour for $100 million and make a complete break or should he eat humble pie, beg for forgiveness, and try to get his fans and sponsors to rally around him?


A quick search shows his net worth is $400,000,000.00. I think he has sufficient bank for the rest of his life.
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O.T. Phil Mickelson on International Politics and Human Rights
« Reply #349 on: May 28, 2022, 03:15:40 PM »
I have a hard time believing his entire net worth is tied up in non easily liquidable assets.

If the $400 mill number is accurate and if just 10% of that was tied up in marketable securities, second homes, property etc....that's still $40 mill. 

Considering the average US household makes it work on less than $70k per year, pretty sure Phil can live on that for the rest of his life, even if he never touched his other long term holdings.

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