[jeffwarne]

Maintaining and designing greens for the speed we see in this week's Open seems like an absolute no brainer, where we see pins on/near little knobs, at the tops and bottoms of slopes, requiring knowledge of the greens, distance control and decision making.
Many putts have multiple breaks. confounding the players, yet rewarding brilliantly well thought out and well played shots-especially those who hit releasing, spin controlled or curving shots.



Sure I'd like to see them a bit firmer, but after a wet spring/summer and the outdoor nature of the game, that's the nature of the beast.


As I posted this I see Jerry's post-which is the  theme the announcers have harped on all week long. Heavy sigh.


I'll never understand why we praise the great links courses, get up at 4 am to watch, make pilgrimages to play and experience the courses....
and then lobby to Americanize the experience.
(to say nothing of the continued softening of
"quirky" features that distinguish great links from the point and shoot Firestones/Bethpages of the world)


Anecodotally, over the last say 5 years the greens overseas are quite a bit faster than they used to be, and generally in not as good of condition due to the stress imposed.

[archie_struthers]

 


The tournament is going great IMHO. With nary a breath of wind , abnormally warm weather and greens as mentioned on the slower side it's really proving to be a wonderful test. Good scores but no one tearing it up ! 

[Tim Martin]

Jeff-I heard a commentator say yesterday that the speed was 10.5 on the stimpmeter. Is that the speed they maintain for member play?

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff, great post.  I am cross posting my response on the other thread here.

Let’s also recognize that the R&A believes in sustainability, and puts their money where their mouth is on the biggest possible stage.  They have been great supporters of the Golf Environment Organization from day one.

If only the USGA had the same commitment to principle, but the U.S. Open has always been a showcase for “Do as I say, not as I do.”  That’s why all the recent $15m renovations of US Open venues bother me so much.

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff-I heard a commentator say yesterday that the speed was 10.5 on the stimpmeter. Is that the speed they maintain for member play?

The target speed is actually 9.5 in the morning because they expect it to increase throughout the day.  I only know that because the Scottish Open was working to get the same speeds last week so the players would get used to it and not leave their putts short.  And it’s worth noting that Oosthuizen, Morikawa, and Ragnar all played last week, but Spieth did not.


EDIT:  Jon Rahm should have a word with Apple spell check about changing his name to Ragnar 

[Ira Fishman]

I would only add that watching the pros consider multiple options when off the green (chip, pitch, hybrid, putt) plus alternate lines to play reinforces the quality, interest, and challenge of the greens.


Ira

[Thomas Dai]

Maintaining and designing greens for the speed we see in this week's Open seems like an absolute no brainer, where we see pins on/near little knobs, at the tops and bottoms of slopes, requiring knowledge of the greens, distance control and decision making.
Many putts have multiple breaks. confounding the players, yet rewarding brilliantly well thought out and well played shots-especially those who hit releasing, spin controlled or curving shots.
Sure I'd like to see them a bit firmer, but after a wet spring/summer and the outdoor nature of the game, that's the nature of the beast.
As I posted this I see Jerry's post-which is the  theme the announcers have harped on all week long. Heavy sigh.
I'll never understand why we praise the great links courses, get up at 4 am to watch, make pilgrimages to play and experience the courses....
and then lobby to Americanize the experience.
(to say nothing of the continued softening of
"quirky" features that distinguish great links from the point and shoot Firestones/Bethpages of the world)
Anecodotally, over the last say 5 years the greens overseas are quite a bit faster than they used to be, and generally in not as good of condition due to the stress imposed.

Another +1 to a post by Jeff today.
Atb

[Cal Seifert]

If members of clubs bragged out how interesting their greens are rather than their speed on the stimp golf would be better off. Some of my favorite rounds were at courses like belvedere, cape arundel, and others that present conditions that exemplify the design of wonderful greens.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Jeff, what speed of the greens at the Bridge? At my clubs they run between 9&11.

[Tom_Doak]

I have met a few superintendents who insisted that the club put the target speed of the greens into their contracts, so they’d know what standard they were expected to reach.  IMO that’s playing with fire.  You are almost begging for them to set the number high.

[Sean_A]

Maintaining and designing greens for the speed we see in this week's Open seems like an absolute no brainer, where we see pins on/near little knobs, at the tops and bottoms of slopes, requiring knowledge of the greens, distance control and decision making.
Many putts have multiple breaks. confounding the players, yet rewarding brilliantly well thought out and well played shots-especially those who hit releasing, spin controlled or curving shots.



Sure I'd like to see them a bit firmer, but after a wet spring/summer and the outdoor nature of the game, that's the nature of the beast.


As I posted this I see Jerry's post-which is the  theme the announcers have harped on all week long. Heavy sigh.


I'll never understand why we praise the great links courses, get up at 4 am to watch, make pilgrimages to play and experience the courses....
and then lobby to Americanize the experience.
(to say nothing of the continued softening of
"quirky" features that distinguish great links from the point and shoot Firestones/Bethpages of the world)


Anecodotally, over the last say 5 years the greens overseas are quite a bit faster than they used to be, and generally in not as good of condition due to the stress imposed.

Well, Sandwich is world class course. 🤷

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Jeff Warne for USGA USGA President!

[Rob Marshall]

At my club the goal is for the green speed to be consistent and around 10 to 10.5. The problem we’ve had lately is rain in July. The final round of our invite was washed out yesterday and with three inches of rain the course is closed today. I have been known to bitch that our greens are too slow at times. However, from what I’ve read here and learned from our super, sometimes there is nothing you can about it.



There are a few posters here I pay particular attention to. One is Jeff. He had a great post on another thread today. “Putting on slow greens is a skill”.Hello, where have I been for the last 40 years……..

[Mark Chaplin]

I shall be on the first tee at RSG at 7am in the morning. The pins won’t have been moved but looking at the positions today 10 will be plenty quick enough for amateurs.

[jeffwarne]

If members of clubs bragged out how interesting their greens are rather than their speed on the stimp golf would be better off. Some of my favorite rounds were at courses like belvedere, cape arundel, and others that present conditions that exemplify the design of wonderful greens.

bingo

[Jeff Schley]

Great when there is no talk about defending par, what the greens are stimping at, headlines of course setup and not having to know who is responsible for it.


God had a plan with the weather and it is what it is, Morikawa ended up with less strokes than others and that is the headline. Well done R&A for allowing the players to be the focus. Kudos and can’t wait until next years 150th.

[Kalen Braley]

Great when there is no talk about defending par, what the greens are stimping at, headlines of course setup and not having to know who is responsible for it.

Jeff,

Did you watch the coverage this weekend?  They talked a lot about the records in jeopardy: 36 hole, 54 hole, and 72 hole as well as the onslaught of birdies.  And the greens? they whined incessantly how the pros kept leaving everything short and what a tragedy it was for them.

I thought the course looked great, but their was plenty of proverbial cheese to go with the whine from the American broadcasters.

P.S.  They ain't seeing nothing yet thou.  Just wait till Bryson drives several par 4s and makes a mockery of TOC next year...

[Ally Mcintosh]

If members of clubs bragged out how interesting their greens are rather than their speed on the stimp golf would be better off. Some of my favorite rounds were at courses like belvedere, cape arundel, and others that present conditions that exemplify the design of wonderful greens.

bingo

I too have always been frustrated that “the greens are good” means condition rather than design for 95% of members.


But the truth of the matter is that a huge proportion of everyday golfers see undulating greens as a negative. Until you change that mindset, you won’t be getting any consistency in members bragging about green design. Perhaps green placement a little bit.

[jeffwarne]

Great when there is no talk about defending par, what the greens are stimping at, headlines of course setup and not having to know who is responsible for it.

Jeff,

Did you watch the coverage this weekend?  They talked a lot about the records in jeopardy: 36 hole, 54 hole, and 72 hole as well as the onslaught of birdies.  And the greens? they whined incessantly how the pros kept leaving everything short and what a tragedy it was for them.

I thought the course looked great, but their was plenty of proverbial cheese to go with the whine from the American broadcasters.

P.S.  They ain't seeing nothing yet thou.  Just wait till Bryson drives several par 4s and makes a mockery of TOC next year...

It was embarrassing how many times the broadcasters displayed their ignorance and lack of respect for the links game and architecture. The repeated green speed remarks were ridiculous and only exceeded by the remarks about bad bounces taking the ball out of the fairways. Funny, I never saw Morikawa get any of those bounces, and when I did see Spieth get one, he went on with it and recovered nicely.
There is only one legitimate complaint about green speeds and that would be having them too fast, rendering the course unplayable, as it was when weather rolled in at St. Andrews in 2015-I was there and they were too fast.Good on them for learning their lesson.
We continue to contest our National Championship on stressed,mottled, plinko greens(though TP was presented well), as if somehow wobbling bumpy 6 footers determine a better winner(they certainly protect par)


At TOC,The mockery will be not be Bryson, but the fact that he won't be alone.
I'd say more than "several" will be in play. 7, 9,10,12,18,even 1 for starters-
Perhaps they can have the $18 Million consultants from Merion advise them on avoiding "Boutique Open" status.

[John Mayhugh]

It was embarrassing how many times the broadcasters displayed their ignorance and lack of respect for the links game and architecture. The repeated green speed remarks were ridiculous and only exceeded by the remarks about bad bounces taking the ball out of the fairways. Funny, I never saw Morikawa get any of those bounces, and when I did see Spieth get one, he went on with it and recovered nicely.

That was an awful crew of announcers. They would be much better suited to events contested at Top Golf.

I look forward to getting back over there for some slow greens and bad breaks. It's the best.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

Very well said, the bad breaks comments were indeed intolerable and I too kept wondering when is one going to actually happen.  And as much as the Yanks bemoaned alleged unfairness, the setup at RSG was one of the most "fair" I can recall seeing anywhere.

P.S.  It was nice to see Morikawa be the adult in the room with his terrific and well-grounded champions speech, certainly far better than watching the 8 year olds BDC and Brooks playing back and forth grab-ass with each other.

[Ira Fishman]

I agree on both points. Morikowa's remarks were very classy. Although the R&A folks probably grimaced when he called it the British Open. But he even had enough poise to "correct" that later in his remarks.


Ira

[Anthony Gholz]

is Precision Air (sub air systems) banned in Briton?

[Niall C]

It was embarrassing how many times the broadcasters displayed their ignorance and lack of respect for the links game and architecture. The repeated green speed remarks were ridiculous and only exceeded by the remarks about bad bounces taking the ball out of the fairways. Funny, I never saw Morikawa get any of those bounces, and when I did see Spieth get one, he went on with it and recovered nicely.

That was an awful crew of announcers. They would be much better suited to events contested at Top Golf.

I look forward to getting back over there for some slow greens and bad breaks. It's the best.

John


Who were the announcers ? Were they from the US network or from Sky ?


Niall

[Tom_Doak]

is Precision Air (sub air systems) banned in Briton?

It should be.  If you need sub air to grow grass in the UK, you don’t know much about growing grass.

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