[Bill Gayne]

Clearly the "members" there are capitalists engaged in supply and demand economics.

Go figure, an American resentful of capitalism.

[Bill Gayne]

No one said the course wasn't enjoyed. I just said I would choose to play elsewhere in the future. There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

In that case Tom Doak warned you and you didn't listen. A Doak five: Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

Garland, you flew thousands of miles to Scotland with limited time to play a course you knew was a three.

[Scott Warren]

Not to mention, Mark, that this from Garland makes clear that all sense has been abandoned in pursuit of justice for his poor bejeaned son.

[There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

[John Mayhugh]

There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

Do you really believe that Elie is "about the level of the average golf course in the world?"

[BHoover]

Imagine being so upset at a private club’s dress code, shooting a 115 (ESC 90), and still complaining.

[Garland Bayley]

No one said the course wasn't enjoyed. I just said I would choose to play elsewhere in the future. There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

In that case Tom Doak warned you and you didn't listen. A Doak five: Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

Garland, you flew thousands of miles to Scotland with limited time to play a course you knew was a three.

Bill,

You flew thousands of miles to play 54 holes at a course you knew Doak rated 3?

I did misremember the Doak rating for Elie. I was thinking it was a 3. Lundin and Jubilee were 3s, but not Elie.

I have often found that i enjoy the Doak 3s more than I enjoy the Doak 4s and 5s. A prime example on the top of the discussion group now is Bude and North Cornwall, which Ally has commented on in his tour of SW England thread. After finding I did not find Doak ratings necessarily suit my tastes in my first trip across the pond, I don't use them much for a guide. Instead, I simply use Peper's True Links to decide to play courses in the area I will be traveling to and play almost exclusively on links, as links are in short supply stateside.

[Garland Bayley]

Clearly the "members" there are capitalists engaged in supply and demand economics.

Go figure, an American resentful of capitalism.

Here in the Pacific Northwest we prefer the Nordstroms version of capitalism. You know, "the customer is always right."
Nordstroms is famous for giving a refund to a customer that was dissatisfied with the tires she bought there (Nordstroms doesn't sell tires).

[Garland Bayley]

...
In Elie there is a business which suggests Garland may be a secret admirer of the course.  I reckon it is high time to come out of the closet and be counted.


Ciao

Perhaps the business belongs to the same chap named Garland that appears to be the club captain.

[Alex Miller]

No one said the course wasn't enjoyed. I just said I would choose to play elsewhere in the future. There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

In that case Tom Doak warned you and you didn't listen. A Doak five: Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

Garland, you flew thousands of miles to Scotland with limited time to play a course you knew was a three.

Bill,

You flew thousands of miles to play 54 holes at a course you knew Doak rated 3?

I did misremember the Doak rating for Elie. I was thinking it was a 3. Lundin and Jubilee were 3s, but not Elie.

I have often found that i enjoy the Doak 3s more than I enjoy the Doak 4s and 5s. A prime example on the top of the discussion group now is Bude and North Cornwall, which Ally has commented on in his tour of SW England thread. After finding I did not find Doak ratings necessarily suit my tastes in my first trip across the pond, I don't use them much for a guide. Instead, I simply use Peper's True Links to decide to play courses in the area I will be traveling to and play almost exclusively on links, as links are in short supply stateside.

I think Tom has even stated that he got Elie a little wrong way back when. In any case I only have this to say about you calling Elie a 3! [size=78%]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKjxFJfcrcA[/size]

[MClutterbuck]

So who on this group was at Elie on May 22? Was this in the afternoon? I was there that day and I did see a group of about 8, some in shorts and long socks.


Lovely course, fast pace of play by members that can make it tricky for first timers on the course. We enjoyed it a lot on a breezy day.


Elie is a Doak 6 I believe, and I recall Tom D adding it to the list of top 10 courses he would want to play in Scotland.

[Sean_A]

So who on this group was at Elie on May 22? Was this in the afternoon? I was there that day and I did see a group of about 8, some in shorts and long socks.

A group played in the AM then a larger group around 3pm.  Best Doak 3 I ever played 

Ciao

[Scott Warren]

That would have been our group, MC.


There was a group of four Americans we said hi to when they (you?) were on the 3rd green and we were on 18 tee. I’m guessing it would have been about 2pm as we started at 11ish.


There was me, Mark Pearce, Sean Arble, John Mayhugh, James Boon, Tony Muldoon, Marty Bonnar, Robin Hiseman and Adam Lawrence, plus Clyde Johnson for our afternoon round.

[MClutterbuck]

We played in the afternoon, teed of before 3pm. Four Argentines, though.

[Sean_A]

We played in the afternoon, teed of before 3pm. Four Argentines, though.

I think we met your group in the clubhouse after the game as you were leaving (your group sat in front of the big window?). A shortish stocky guy spoke to us briefly and I thought he might have been Mexican or S American.

Ciao

[Bill Crane]

So who on this group was at Elie on May 22? Was this in the afternoon? I was there that day and I did see a group of about 8, some in shorts and long socks.

Lovely course, fast pace of play by members that can make it tricky for first timers on the course. We enjoyed it a lot on a breezy day.

Elie is a Doak 6 I believe, and I recall Tom D adding it to the list of top 10 courses he would want to play in Scotland.

That Elie is a Doak scale 5 is one of ratings I don't understand in the new version of the Confidential Guide.  Tom Doak gushed about the character of the place even indicating he would play more golf there then on some of the St Andrews links courses- but only gave it a 5.

In a recent discussion with Ian Andrew he mentioned he thought this was a very under-rated course and I completely agree.  Hard to believe it is not a 6 at least.

[MClutterbuck]

We played in the afternoon, teed of before 3pm. Four Argentines, though.

I think we met your group in the clubhouse after the game as you were leaving (your group sat in front of the big window?). A shortish stocky guy spoke to us briefly and I thought he might have been Mexican or S American.

Ciao

That was us. Sorry we did not get the chance to talk, I was probably busy figuring out dinner plans on our way to Carnoustie.

[Scott Warren]

Aha — yes, your group let us through on the 7th green in the afternoon!

[Garland Bayley]

There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

Do you really believe that Elie is "about the level of the average golf course in the world?"

Just because Doak has assigned a three to a course, do you really believe all those courses are "about the level of the average golf course in the world?"

He certainly has gotten a lot of push back from members here on a number of links courses that he has assigned a three to. E.g., Niall C objects to the 3 he gave Moray Old. Ally M objects to the 3 he gave Bude and North Cornwall.

[MClutterbuck]

Aha — yes, your group let us through on the 7th green in the afternoon!

Yes, I am afraid that with no caddie and no local, first time around that routing can be confusing and/or slow. We did let a group through there as I could not find my drive, found it after well over the green. n

[Ira Fishman]

My wife and I played without Caddies in less than 3 hours. I have no idea how the Doak Scale works, but we found Elie well above average..


Ira

[Bill Gayne]

No one said the course wasn't enjoyed. I just said I would choose to play elsewhere in the future. There are plenty of other Doak 3s out there to choose from for my limited chances to cross the pond to play.

In that case Tom Doak warned you and you didn't listen. A Doak five: Well above the average golf course, but the middle of my scale. A good course to choose if you're in the vicinity and looking for a game, but don't spend another day away from home to see it, unless your home is in Alaska.

Garland, you flew thousands of miles to Scotland with limited time to play a course you knew was a three.

Bill,

You flew thousands of miles to play 54 holes at a course you knew Doak rated 3?

I did misremember the Doak rating for Elie. I was thinking it was a 3. Lundin and Jubilee were 3s, but not Elie.

I have often found that i enjoy the Doak 3s more than I enjoy the Doak 4s and 5s. A prime example on the top of the discussion group now is Bude and North Cornwall, which Ally has commented on in his tour of SW England thread. After finding I did not find Doak ratings necessarily suit my tastes in my first trip across the pond, I don't use them much for a guide. Instead, I simply use Peper's True Links to decide to play courses in the area I will be traveling to and play almost exclusively on links, as links are in short supply stateside.

Yep, have no qualms about it and would do it again.

[Sean_A]

My wife and I played without Caddies in less than 3 hours. I have no idea how the Doak Scale works, but we found Elie well above average..

Ira

Makes complete sense for a 2ball...not so much for a 4ball.

Ciao

[Lloyd_Cole]

Elie is a fantastic course, I'm lucky to have a few friends who are members there, but my memories of the Buda Cup have stayed with me. We played in awful heavy rain and we were a little behind schedule, we had maybe 15 minutes to dry off after the first 18, grab a sandwich and rush out again. I distinctly recall the starter telling us that 'foresomes at Elie are played in 2 hours and 40 minutes'. I was not impressed. It was unnecessary and sergeant major-ish. The collective green fee from the group that day could not have been insignificant to membership fees.

[Mark Pearce]

Elie is a fantastic course, I'm lucky to have a few friends who are members there, but my memories of the Buda Cup have stayed with me. We played in awful heavy rain and we were a little behind schedule, we had maybe 15 minutes to dry off after the first 18, grab a sandwich and rush out again. I distinctly recall the starter telling us that 'foresomes at Elie are played in 2 hours and 40 minutes'. I was not impressed. It was unnecessary and sergeant major-ish. The collective green fee from the group that day could not have been insignificant to membership fees.

Given the suggestion previously made, without any insight at all, by Ryan about the way the starter spoke to Garland, it's worth noting that the starter back then has retired and was not the same one as Garland met.  I have no idea why he would have said that, though, as Elie is not a two-ball club and whilst we were playing foresomes, other groups that afternoon would likely have been playing 4 balls. 

[Garland Bayley]

Given the suggestion previously made, without any insight at all, by Ryan about the way the starter spoke to Garland,...

I don't see anything in what Ryan wrote or what I wrote that suggests the starter was anything but polite to me. I politely asked if an exception could be made due to our luggage situation, and he carefully explained the tradition of the club.

What Ryan suggests as I interpret it is this is a course in a small rural community that charges visitors three times what similar courses not so advantageously located charge, AND enforces an arcane dress code just because they can.

Locate them in Bude, Cornwall, and the fee drops significantly, and the dress code goes with the flow.

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