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Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2019, 05:52:43 PM »
I'm sitting in front of my Florida world, looking at the sturdy knee high socks which I purchased when first playing in the Elie Links Championship back in the day.  They cost me 25 squid, and I was honoured to have played that day with the person who still holds the lowest score of 65 (I believe) for the qualifying for match play.


Please man up guys and gals here who believe that "fashionable stretch denim Jean's" are nothing more than a transatlantic oxymoron......

[/size]Rich[/color]

I am aware of the dress code. There was no attempt to circumvent it, other than the misfortune of having baggage mishandled. I have played a few events with you Rich, and I have read the dress codes of the places where were playing. I was surprised that you were the most egregious violator of the dress codes for the KP event, and wondered how you got away with it. I suppose if you are in the know, you know who enforces and who doesn't.

Many of the courses state they require a handicap card to play them. I have carried my freshly printed handicap card with me every time I have come to play in the British Isles. Not one single course has asked me to see it. Am I supposed to call every club where I play and ask whether they really need the handicap card? I carried the letter of introduction from my club to Royal Portrush. No one asked me to see it. Am I supposed to call Royal Portrush and ask if they really want the letter they so adamantly insist on on their website? Am I supposed to call every club where I play and ask if they really enforce their dress code, because by far most have the code on the books but you can see they don't enforce it by what other players there are wearing.

There are plenty of places I would rather play than Elie, so I have no worries about swearing I won't be back. It after all is a long and tiresome trip. I can use less tiresome hosts.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:57:45 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2019, 05:56:34 PM »


I'm hoping at least one of us will be wearing shorts and socks when the elite band of GCAers play it tomorrow!
F.


One of my enduring, and favorite, memories of playing Scotland is the first time I played Elie.


Ahead of us on the course were several groups of teenagers all of whom were wearing shorts.  Seeing how sharp (now there's an old word) those young men looked made a real impression on both my wife and me.


I especially liked the ones who were wearing kilt socks.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2019, 11:58:40 AM »


Many of the courses state they require a handicap card to play them. I have carried my freshly printed handicap card with me every time I have come to play in the British Isles. Not one single course has asked me to see it. Am I supposed to call every club where I play and ask whether they really need the handicap card? I carried the letter of introduction from my club to Royal Portrush. No one asked me to see it. Am I supposed to call Royal Portrush and ask if they really want the letter they so adamantly insist on on their website? Am I supposed to call every club where I play and ask if they really enforce their dress code, because by far most have the code on the books but you can see they don't enforce it by what other players there are wearing.

There are plenty of places I would rather play than Elie, so I have no worries about swearing I won't be back. It after all is a long and tiresome trip. I can use less tiresome hosts.



Garland,


you are correct that many clubs do require a handicap in order to play and the occasional club still insists on a letter of introduction. The fact that they might not ask a visitor to produce them is more a sign that they believe a visitor to be an honest person who would be in possession of the necessary document and be able to produce said document if needed. It is certainly not that they do not want to enforce this rule whilst enforcing others. The reason they enforced the dress rule was because it is obvious to all when someone is wearing a pair of denim trousers though even here as I have already mentioned if covered by a pair of waterproof trousers I am pretty certain that would have been okay.


You seem hell bent on blaming the club for sticking to the rules set by their membership. The club did not loose you clubs and clothes.


Jon

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2019, 05:09:29 PM »
Jon,

As I pointed out in my original message, golf is sending the wrong message by exclusionary actions based on trivial things like capricious dress code details. This is not the first time this website has heard about it, as I have seen many such statements here.

In a later message I indicated that I have many options to play and few opportunities to do so, therefore, it presents no problem to me to skip playing Elie in the future. For example, I would be just as happy playing the Eden course multiple times over returning to Elie. It is Elie's loss of income, but no loss to me. And, I believe Eden would not have enforced the dress code since the Castle Course did not enforce such a dress code the day before.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 05:12:25 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #79 on: May 23, 2019, 03:43:03 AM »

Garland,


Eden and the Castle course are both municipals where as Elie is a private so a different kettle of fish.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #80 on: May 23, 2019, 07:27:50 AM »
I canít help it, I find this tantrum hilarious.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #81 on: May 23, 2019, 05:08:32 PM »

Garland,


Eden and the Castle course are both municipals where as Elie is a private so a different kettle of fish.

??? What's your point? ???
I am interested in what I enjoy playing, not whether they are private or public.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2019, 09:18:44 PM »
I canít help it, I find this tantrum hilarious.


+1 Someone needs to put on their big boy pants.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2019, 10:22:44 PM »
I canít help it, I find this tantrum hilarious.


+1 Someone needs to put on their big boy pants.


Hopefully they arenít spandex-ed denim.

James Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2019, 11:08:09 PM »
What a shame for anyone to divorce themselves from Elie over having to buy pants because you lost our luggage. 


I lost my whole kit with Air Canada for the first two days of a trip to Cabot last summer and was faced with the prospectThe thought of traveling so far for destination golf and then getting hamstrung over clothing and equipment is alien to me. 


Fore!


Two words. Ship Sticks


I was right on the line.  For the UK, yes 100%.  I just thought Canada was the 51st state...

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #85 on: May 24, 2019, 02:40:47 AM »

Garland,


Eden and the Castle course are both municipals where as Elie is a private so a different kettle of fish.

 ??? What's your point? ???
I am interested in what I enjoy playing, not whether they are private or public.



Please Garland,


you should know that a muni in the UK will almost always allow denim on the course but most private members clubs (except in the Highlands) do not. I did have some sympathy for your situation at the start but I think I just lost it.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #86 on: May 24, 2019, 04:07:44 AM »
Jon,

Since I never wear denim playing golf, and my son had no intention to do so, I just don't understand your concern for public vs. Private.

I have flown a lot in my life on North American and Asian based airline without a single luggage problem. However, I have flown just twice with European airlines, and both times the luggage hasn't made it. Perhaps the solution is to avoid European based airlines.  ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #87 on: May 24, 2019, 05:31:25 AM »
Garland,


I've met you and you seemed to be a reasonable person so I offer this advice. Leave this thread and mini rant of yours.


Start a new thread about your trip: where did you play? what did you like and learn about GCA? It will be like chicken soup for your soul and others will help.


Bill

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2019, 05:58:25 AM »
Garland when I flew USA to UK on a European airline, I was delayed 24 hours, I got a hotel room and $700 cash compensation. Had the same flight been in United, Delta or AA Iíd have got nothing. Thereís a good reason to fly European airlines and use ShipSticks.  ;D


As for Ellie they have a waiting list for membership so there is clearly support for the dress code.
Cave Nil Vino

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2019, 08:28:32 AM »
I do not think that this will make Garland feel better, but members at Congressional love to tell the story about the starter not allowing Michael Jordan to play in Cargo Pants.  The amazing thing is not that they would not let MJ play in them but that they actually had pants in the shop that fit him.


Ira

Peter Pallotta

Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #90 on: May 24, 2019, 11:33:01 AM »
I'd read that story, and my first & only thought was: 'What the hell is MJ doing in *cargo pants*?!'
Jimmy Demaret - tailored sportswear in the finest materials from the best NYC makers
Ben Hogan - custom made leather footwear from the high streets of far away Great Britain
Arnold Palmer - buying dozens of his favourite stiff-collared golf shirts just on the off-chance that they'd one day go out of production
And MJ, with a net worth many times that of all those great golfers combined, shows up in cargo pants?
To paraphrase something Tarantino might write:
'Those better have been the goddamned best motherfu--ing pair of cargo pants in the whole fu--ing history of cargo pants!'



« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 11:36:13 AM by Peter Pallotta »

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #91 on: May 24, 2019, 01:18:33 PM »
Sadly half this thread is now nonsense and noise.


Ellie was playing fully "Linksy" this week. It offers EVERYTHING I want from a course and after 5 rounds there it leaps into the top 5 courses that I want to play over and over.

Is any higher praise possible?

Go play and reflect carefully. Do not patronise this as 'holiday golf'. It's the real deal(sic).

« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 06:50:38 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #92 on: May 24, 2019, 02:08:33 PM »
ĎHoliday golfí, an expression often used inappropriately in relation to U.K. golf where the majority of clubs have numerous members, often the majority, who live close by 365 days per year.
Atb

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #93 on: May 24, 2019, 06:14:29 PM »
Garland,

I was so sorry to hear from others of this thread and your unsatisfactory experience.  As a proud member of the Golf House Club it is, of course, extremely disappointing to hear that an unaccompanied American visitor has had such an unsatisfying experience.  I will take this matter up with the committee.
What I propose to suggest is that the club conducts an urgent and complete review of the way it deals with unaccompanied visitor play.  In doing that, I will ask them to pay particular attention to how US private clubs treat unaccompanied visitor play.  Given Elie's prestige and history and(as has been pointed to already in this thread, it's strong connections with the R&A), we will, I am sure, take soundings from clubs such as Seminole, San Francisco Golf Club and Pine Valley and learn from the way those clubs would have handled an unaccompanied visitor in stretch denim.  I have little doubt that the club will learn from this episode.  It seems to me that the only way forward for the club will be to adopt the stance of those US private clubs and ban unaccompanied visitor play completely.  I'm sure you'll agree that is the only way forward for private UK clubs to avoid inconveniencing people like you and your son in future.
As to your concern that Elie and its traditions are killing junior golf in Scotland.  We struggle along with just 160 junior members and the waiting list for membership is just a couple of years, so I will bring this to the urgent attention of the committee.

Finally, Iím delighted to see that you have been able to see the bigger picture.  Rather than take your anger and frustration on the airline, who, after all, did nothing wrong other than lose your baggage, you have seen the important issue and focussed in on it.  A lesser man might even have thought of asking the airline to pay for the cost of those trousers.

Yours Respectfully,
Mark
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:23:17 AM by Mark Pearce »

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #94 on: May 24, 2019, 09:40:31 PM »
Garland,
I was so sorry to hear from others of this thread and your unsatisfactory experience.  As a proud member of the Golf House Club it is, of course, extremely disappointing to hear that an unaccompanied American visitor has had such an unsatisfying experience.  I will take this matter up with the committee.
What I propose to suggest is that the club conducts an urgent and complete review of the way it deals with unaccompanied visitor play.  In doing that, I will ask them to pay particular attention to how US private clubs treat unaccompanied visitor play.  Given Elie's prestige and history and(as has been pointed to already in this thread, it's strong connections with the R&A), we will, I am sure, take soundings from clubs such as Seminole, San Francisco Golf Club and Pine Valley and learn from the way those clubs would have handled an unaccompanied visitor in stretch denim.  I have little doubt that the club will learn from this episode.  It seems to me that the only way forward for the club will be to adopt the stance of those US private clubs and ban unaccompanied visitor play completely.  I'm sure you'll agree that is the only way forward for private UK clubs to avoid inconveniencing people like you and your son in future.
As to your concern that Elie and its traditions are killing junior golf in Scotland.  We struggle along with just 160 junior members and the waiting list for membership is just a couple of years, so I will bring this to the urgent attention of the committee.
Finally, Iím delighted to see that you have been able to see the bigger picture.  Rather than take your anger and frustration on the airline, who, after all, did nothing wrong other than lose your baggage, you have seen the important issue and focussed in on it.  A lesser man might even have thought of asking the airline to pay for the cost of those trousers.
Yours Respectfully,
Mark


Post of the year candidate. Well done, sir!

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #95 on: May 25, 2019, 01:59:34 AM »

Please Garland,


you should know that a muni in the UK will almost always allow denim on the course



I rocked up at my local muni at Altrincham last night after work for a quick nine holes. I was wearing my jeans and asked about dress code as I paid my eight quid.

Suffice to say I changed into my golf pants in the car park!
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 02:01:58 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #96 on: May 25, 2019, 03:14:34 AM »
Mark,


A fine post and tremendous that all at The Golf House Club have reflected on the diplomatic incident they caused and sought to find a better way forward.


Of course, it will be a blow for the many visiting Americans who have, for several hundred years, been visiting the club without issue. But youíre absolutely right that if the club must learn from this experience.


Please could you also ensure you let us know the outcome of the starterís disciplinary hearing?

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #97 on: May 25, 2019, 03:46:46 AM »
If Garland comes to Deal I will personally ensure a corner and lots of teddies are provided so he can throw away at his leisure.
Cave Nil Vino

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #98 on: May 25, 2019, 05:17:50 AM »

Please Garland,


you should know that a muni in the UK will almost always allow denim on the course



I rocked up at my local muni at Altrincham last night after work for a quick nine holes. I was wearing my jeans and asked about dress code as I paid my eight quid.

Suffice to say I changed into my golf pants in the car park!


You removed your trousers in the car park? I hope to God there weren't any ladies present, it could have caused a riot.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GOLF HOUSE CLUB, ELIE
« Reply #99 on: May 25, 2019, 07:13:10 AM »
Scott,


The starter is a fine man and long standing servant of the club.  He will, I am sure, understand the hurt his enforcement of these rules has caused.  I have little doubt that he will do the right thing and avoid the need for the unpleasantness of a hearing.

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