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Sean_A

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2015, 05:07:09 AM »
Paul

I agree, if by accident or not, the cut lines for the greens may be the best I have seen for a Colt...though there are a few areas which could be improved.  The other thing which made a very strong impression on me are the bench greens.  They are so well done that its hard to call them bench greens. 

I want to organize a GCA.com outing sometime...drag Spangles along for his own good.

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 05:58:22 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Niall C

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #26 on: October 23, 2015, 05:21:50 AM »
Paul T


Many thanks for the comments. I think it's difficult sometimes to get a proper feel for an old dead guys work because there best known work is often rejigged in subtle and not so subtle ways over the years so a course like this is invaluable. Not sure when I'd ever find myself in Hampshire but would like to think I'd get to Leckford one of these days.


Niall

Tom Kelly

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #27 on: October 23, 2015, 09:27:36 AM »
I want to organize a GCA.com outing sometime...drag Spangles along for his own good.


I'd be keen to make up the numbers needed for a society if this ever happens.


It's been on my radar for a few years and never worked out how I'd sort a game. Looking at the tour I definitely want to see it!

Paul Gray

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2015, 09:52:38 AM »
Tom,


I'm pretty sure you'd like it. I know you have an eye for the micro aspects of architecture and you could spend a lot of time discussing the subtlety of the benching with Sean!  :)


In terms of strategy, it's slightly compromised in parts but really only slightly. It's a good example of what you can continue to get right without a century of committee members leaving their scent on the course.


The more I think about it the more I want to play the new course as well, just really to see how and why it falls short. I believe it's a Donald Steel creation which isn't reputed to have any real merit. It would be a lovely little job to bring that nine up to scratch.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2015, 10:10:39 AM »
In the UK it's fairly common for a good quality older 9 holes to be botched into a lackluster 18 when a modern 9 is added.  Thank goodness this didn't happen with Leckford. I doubt the total yardage has been increased by even 50 yards.

Although Sean is correct that there isn't a whole lot of danger off the tee, the greens are such that the approach difficulty varies with tee shot and flag placement.

In an English countryside way, it's a pretty course too.  The trees aren't a big factor but are very fine specimens: between the 1st and 8/9th and the attractive settings of 3rd and 6th greens.

I reckon Leckford Old vies with Reigate Heath for #2 best 9 holer in the country.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 10:36:51 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2015, 10:23:25 AM »
Paul,


Yes, it's very fortunate that the new course is completely separate from the old. Have you played the new course? As I was saying, it would be nice if it could be brought up to standard. How costly that would be I have no idea. I've not even taken a peak at it. In terms of maintenance, the current small crew already look after all eighteen holes no there wouldn't be a huge change there.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2015, 09:42:44 PM »
Photo of 8th from 2005 I thought that perhaps a central fairway bunker had been filled in, where the depression is on the crest of the ridge.

What do you think?  is it still there?

« Last Edit: October 23, 2015, 09:44:29 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Sean_A

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2015, 03:30:21 AM »
Yes, I think both Paul and myself noticed this slight depression.  If there was a bunker there its a strange place for one.  The fairway is much too narrow as it is and I think the trees (at least some) down the right are meant to be there. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2015, 04:02:41 AM »
Sean,

having not played the course this is a bit of a punt in the dark but if the first three trees on the right were removed this would open up the tee shot dramatically. From the photo the easy shot seems to be up the left side to allow the slope to bring the ball back especially if hitting a fade like most. With the trees block the right side at least visually it makes the tee shot look awful tight but if opened up the bunker would challenge easier shot up the left.

Jon

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2015, 05:22:03 AM »
Jon

There is an entire cops of trees between 1 & 8.  The forward tree in my pic isn't really in play.  I did discover on my two plays that

1. If one plays down the right side of the fairway and is long enough, the ball will not kick hard right.

2. If one plays up the left in the fairway, the ball kicks hard right and loses a ton of distance. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: January 03, 2018, 05:59:38 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2015, 07:25:03 AM »
If the fairway is cut all the way to the hawthorn bushes on the left (and maybe cut those back), then I think the bunker would possibly make sense.  The ideal line would be over the bunker for a good hit and if you can carry then a big kick forward would get you pretty close to the green.

But from Sean's 2015 pics, the fairway have been narrowed.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2015, 12:34:57 PM »
Sean,

it is always difficult and perhaps foolhardy to try to judge from photos. I had the impression that the removal of said trees would allow a clear view of the whole green but maybe that is not the case. I think Paul is correct and I would also remove the hawthorns and vegetation back to the boundary line. Still that might be more visual than practical.

Jon

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2015, 08:09:38 PM »
That fairway is a bit narrow and at the time I think both Sean and I concluded it was a necessary evil because of the severity of the slope. On reflection though it does seem another five yards or so could be given up the left. It should be said however that the slope would almost certainly kick anything and everything to the right in all but the lushest of conditions, regardless of whether a bunker was being flirted with or not.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2015, 06:27:45 PM »
I honestly can't see any need for a bunker in that spot or any other on this fairway.  First, it would look very awkward.  Second, the tee shot is demanding as is.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2015, 06:31:17 PM »
I honestly can't see any need for a bunker in that spot or any other on this fairway.  First, it would look very awkward.  Second, the tee shot is demanding as is.


Ciao

I'd agree with that. It's severe enough as it.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul_Turner

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2015, 07:57:03 PM »
From above it looks like a filled bunker.


There was definitely another one about 40 yards short of the green, right center.  This one shows up as a bunker in a 1940s aerial (the big one is filled by then if it was a bunker).   Depression in fairway is still visible now.


« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 08:08:01 PM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2015, 08:06:03 PM »
Paul T,

Absolutely. The one short of the green would make perfect sense, particularly in the days of hickories. It would be a good inclusion even now, in my opinion.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2015, 12:28:13 PM »
Paul T,

Absolutely. The one short of the green would make perfect sense, particularly in the days of hickories. It would be a good inclusion even now, in my opinion.


Paul


Why do you think a bunker 40 yards short of the green is the place for it to be?  Why not 25 or 55?


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #43 on: July 18, 2017, 10:16:26 AM »
I finally went and played this beauty yesterday. Thanks to this website (and Sean particularly) gems like this come to our attention. It was a thoroughly worthwhile day out.

The spur for this visit was my contact with our very own Clyde Johnson, who shall be helping course manager Daniel Robinson build some new alternate tees this coming winter. Daniel was kind enough to take me around and show me where they shall go. It's surprising that alternate tees have not been provided before and they shall certainly be welcome on the second lap around.

It was fascinating to study the Colt greens, which Daniel believes are genuinely the original surfaces. It is easy to believe this as the common Colt tropes of flared edges and bunkering on the high side is much in evident. They are a very engaging and technical set of greens, which still hold relevance in the modern era, even though the approach distances are generally much shorter than original.

With 600 members, Leckford can be quite a busy little course. There is a local membership in addition to the John Lewis arrangement, but one senses that the low key nature of the 'club' is much cherished by members who don't want to be bothered with having to book a tee through a pro shop. In the small pavilion there is a snack machine and a coffee machine. Green fees are paid into an honesty box and Daniel's office doubles up as a sort of pro shop if a visitor needs a few balls or tees.

Sean's photos do a fine job of giving us a flavour of the course. I'll just add a couple of the 8th hole, which appealed to me for the exacting nature of its approach shot, after the spectacular tee shot from on high. It's a typical Colt green that invites you to make use of the contour short and to the side of the green to feed the ball into the pin, but with the jeopardy of punishing hazards nearby.


Green 8: Take aim at the deep bunker tucked into the hillside to the left and let the ball feed into the pin. Don't spunk it into the front bunker as I'm about to after a perfect drive (see ball in middle of fairway). It's about the hardest fairway to hit so I was delighted.


Behind Green 8: Typical of Colt with a bunker tucked into the hill on the high side of the green, with a highly flared green contour to help the approach shot, but which makes a controlled escape from the bunker doubly difficult. some beautiful little pockets on this green.

I found Daniel to be very welcoming and I think he appreciates the interest shown in his course by golf architecture devotees. I think genuine enquiries to visit will always be generously accommodated.
2024: Royal St. David's (x2); Mill Ride
In planning: Hayling, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Thurlestone

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #44 on: July 18, 2017, 06:30:34 PM »
Doc

Glad to see you received the Leckford Badge...its a special place.

Among a splendid set of greens, the last may be my favourite.  It is incredible how well it sits into the landscape...just a great shaping job.


Ciao
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 06:38:49 PM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #45 on: January 03, 2018, 06:02:49 AM »
So, how is the new set of tees coming along?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #46 on: January 03, 2018, 07:47:31 AM »
What a great looking set of greens!

Clyde Johnson

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Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #47 on: January 03, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »
So, how is the new set of tees coming along?

Ciao


They were doing it all in-house, but last I heard, they had them all built before Christmas. There were only four completely new tees - #3, #4, #5 and #9. The others were to be reclaimed from abandoned original tees, with the odd expansion and use of forward tees.


Hopefully they have filled in some of the non-original bunkers (by the second and fifth greens), and adjusted some of the mowing lines while they were at it.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lovely LECKFORD OLD GC
« Reply #48 on: January 06, 2018, 06:30:37 PM »
So, how is the new set of tees coming along?

Ciao


They were doing it all in-house, but last I heard, they had them all built before Christmas. There were only four completely new tees - #3, #4, #5 and #9. The others were to be reclaimed from abandoned original tees, with the odd expansion and use of forward tees.

Hopefully they have filled in some of the non-original bunkers (by the second and fifth greens), and adjusted some of the mowing lines while they were at it.


#9?  Where would a tee go there?  I can see the other holes being altered by tee width.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

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