Golf Club Atlas
GolfClubAtlas.com => Golf Course Architecture => Topic started by: Sean_A on October 13, 2015, 09:08:24 AM
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Harry Colt designed so many courses in the United Kingdom that it easy to overlook a gem or two. Set in the Hampshire downlands deep in the Test Valley, Leckford Old Course is one such example. Designed in 1929 near the end of Colt’s heyday (with help from Morrison?), Leckford Old exhibits all the charm and guile normally associated with Colt projects. From the back tees the yardage is about 3150, but the lack of length is not in the least a drawback due to the exemplary use of the land to create variety. From the valley holes, 1, 2 & 9, to the transition holes 3, 4 & 8 to the high holes 5-7, the offering is tidy, not least because of the highly engaging greens. The terrain too is decidedly enticing, even if a bit ornery in places.
The aspect of the design which greatly impresses is the benched greens. One normally associates benched greens with sharp lines, not so in the case of Leckford. Colt gracefully shaped the 3rd through 8th greens in such a manner that is difficult to associate such a clumsy label as “benched” with these surfaces. It is a testament of simplicity that the club has managed to retain the green shapes and cut lines to the degree witnessed. If this maintenance regime is indicative of how John Lewis Partnership business activities are handled we should all be beating down the doors of John Lewis department stores and Waitrose supermarkets.
Some might label the opening two par 5s bending left and gradually climbing the valley as the weak point of the design, but individually these are good holes. The opening drive is particularly satisfying.
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The 2nd green. The right bunker looks out of place. I wonder if it's original?
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Behind the 2nd.
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The exacting short 3rd cuts across the top of the valley. Notice the shaping...it completely masks the benched nature of the hole.
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The green is exceptional.
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Probably Leckford's best hole, the 4th aggressively climbs to higher ground. Its listed 400 yards plays much more like 440. The corner bunkers must be addressed to gain the only reasonable line of approach. Badly eroded, the faces originally had more sand visible with roll-over grassing, not dissimilar to what now exists at Portrush.
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The green leans heavily left and is protected by a high gulley. If the course is keen, it will take an extraordinary shot to hold the green in two from the safer right side of the fairway.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4298/35623261580_4afeb04495_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4298/35623261580_4afeb04495_b.jpg)
Notice the green line on the left side creeping over the edge of the hump.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4295/35623261460_3f7e556d31_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4295/35623261460_3f7e556d31_b.jpg)
The par 4 fifth also features superb green lines to the front and left of the green. It is a shame these same lines aren't duplicated in the back of the green because there is a great hole location which is lost. As on the second, the bunkering here looks awkward I suspect one bunker was added at a later date.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4298/35879167241_1bab82224c_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4298/35879167241_1bab82224c_b.jpg)
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Playing downhill, the fairway bunkering adds interest to the 6th, but again, it is the front right to rear left tilt of the green which is the star.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4319/35623261290_196675699e_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4319/35623261290_196675699e_b.jpg)
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As on 6, the 7th requires straighter hitting, but even if in the fairway the approach is demanding.
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/935/43687633202_ac90ccc898_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/935/43687633202_ac90ccc898_b.jpg)
Running wildy downhill, #8 not only plays longer than it might seem, but it is the only hole which demands accuracy off the tee.
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With covering bunkers front right and back left, one must be on target for the approach as well.
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While a very good hole, the 9th does have a tree encroaching from the left which prevents golfers from playing a fade (arguably the go to shot on this hole) into this sharply downhill green.
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The simplicty of the design and maintenance is echoed by the house. Five staff run the entire Leckford golf operation (there is also Leckford New) so it will be appreciated that there is no bar or proshop. Visitors deposit money in a slot in the wall and there is a fridge on hand for those who bring their own beer.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4295/35623260970_354688ae11_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4295/35623260970_354688ae11_b.jpg)
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Ahhhh, the Promised Land! Unless one is a member of the club or visits as part of a society of 8 or more, Leckford will take special permission to play. This process may seem like an unneccessary hinderance not worth pursuing, but this attitude would be mistaken. Leckford Old is an exceptional design and surprisingly maintained to a high standard. One may even venture to say that it would take a month's worth of Sundays to find a better set of Colt greens. 2015
Ciao
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Sean
Never heard of it and yet looking at it you would think with those greens that it was a world beater. And those greens look fantastic, even in photogrpahs (no offence to the photographer). What fantastic movement. It's certainly an eye opener in the sense that this was towards the end of his career and yet he was still producing greens with so much movement. I thought, or maybe just assumed Colt toned down his green designs over the years but maybe its just that so many of them have been tamed by greenkeepers over the years, who knows.
Sean, thanks for that, a real treat.
Niall
ps. is it just a nine holer ?
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Thanks, Sean. Another little gem, it seems.
To you (and Niall, and others who might know) a question/request for you views:
For lack of a better term, what is the "business model" or "fiscal environment" for a course like Leckford? What I mean is, how does it maintain itself in existence, financially speaking?
Let me try again. Time after time I've read about the relatively modest initiation fees and yearly dues at courses like the ones Sean profiles (such as Leckford). These courses have existed for many decades, and continue to flourish and to provide excellent golf and a fine (and very simple, e.g. without banquet facilities) club atmosphere.
Meanwhile, I also read here constantly about courses (both public and private, in America but elsewhere too) that are struggling financially and/or failing and/or building new clubhouses or renovating to attract new members, or raising green fees etc etc just to make it into their 10 year, let alone 10th decade -- and again I wonder "How do the Leckfords of the world do it?"
Is Leckford close to a major population centre that provides a constant stream of visitors and visitors' fees? Is it because it has no debt and a modest maintenance budget that it can easily turn a profit every year? Does it have hundreds of dedicated and life-long members who through their dues easily manage to pay all the bills? Is it because (unlike many courses in North America) it can stay open and playable almost all year round?
In short, your thoughts on how/why these Leckford type courses stay vibrant/vital while others stagnate/fail would be appreciated.
Peter
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Looks very interesting. Love the lines.
Where exactly is Leckford? Why did it stay as 9 holes only? Tell us about Leckford New--next door?
I'd love to hear more about the details of the course. Never had heard of it, but I love classic Colt designs.
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Peter
Bear in mind many of these clubs came into existence about a century ago and therefore unless they have recently spent big on their clubhouse, generally speaking they will be carrying no significant costs. Meanwhile their overheads will be tiny compared to the typical country club model you have in the states (although I don't really know much about that) in that greens staff could be as little as 1 to maybe 6 employees and clubhouse staff could be as little as a couple of part time staff with green fees paid at the bar or in an honesty box. It depends what the subs plus visitor fees can pay for.
So in summation low subs is down to low or no carrying costs and fairly modest overheads. For that you get golf on a reasonably maintained course and basic service in the clubhouse. Clearly it will depend on the location, standing of the club and quality of the course where higher subs might be tolerated by the members.
Niall
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Peter, Leckford is owned by the John Lewis Partnership, a major UK retailer, the parent company of Waitrose supermarkets. It's located on the Leckford estate in Hampshire, which is a big property farmed by jLP to supply the stores with vegetables etc. JLP really is a partnership, it is owned by its staff.
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http://www.leckfordgolfcourse.co.uk/index.htm
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Pietro
In the case of Leckford, JLP owns the course and provides it as a benefit for employees and their families. The course is part of the JL Estate which includes a farm to grow produce for Waitrose. The annual dues for Partners (employees) is ridiculously cheap even for UK standards. There is a non-partnership membership element as well, but they pay much more, but even so, very competitive annual dues.
Generally speaking though, low overheads and welcoming visitors makes a huge difference to sustainability.
Another very cool aspect is 3 and 4 balls have no standing at Leckford. Subsequently, I didn't see any 3 or 4 balls :D
In any case, Leckford is highly recommended.
Niall...it was a stinker day for light and with a point and shoot camera these pix are all I could muster. Not great I know, but one still gets a sense for the land and the greens.
Jim
Leckford New is next door, though there is a separate parking lot. One of the holes is just above the Leckford Old 1st, don't know which hole though. D Steel designed the New in the late 80s and it is very short.
Niall
Yes, a 9 holer.
Ciao
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Sean
Trust me, your photos turned out a good bit better than OK. What I meant was that a lot of times with photos you don't get a sense of the movement in the ground, particularly greens, but in yours you do. I'd be interested to know from someone like Paul Turner whether the kind of borrows shown here were typical of Colt at that time in his career, or was he perhaps being more sporty on the basis it was a nine holer ? (I assume it has always been a nine holer ?)
Niall
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Again, another wonderful tour Sean. Leckford certainly seems to show the standards that a 'mere' nine holer can reach. I seem to remember a photo thread on this course a while back by one of the Marks if memory serves me well.
Jon
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This was my second outing to Leckford and it was every bit as good as I remembered. Actually, #2, #6 and #7 were all better than I had previously appreciated. My willingness to play the average nine hole course twice in one day is usually limited but it is testimony to the quality of Leckford that I didn't hesitate.
In part addressing Peter's question, Leckford is a bit of an outlier price wise because I strongly suspect John Lewis Partnership subsidises it. Nonetheless, the point Peter made was a very valid one. Limited overheads means you don't need a huge membership in order to stay afloat. It'a a simple matter of business prudence. In boom times then you might make a bit of money but I guess you won't get rich. The real benefit though surely must be that when hard times strike and membership dwindles, you can tick by with 200 members or so. Jon Wiggett is probably the best guy here to ask about direct experience of this as he's living the dream right now! :)
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Paul is spot on in that the best ways for a club to get through lean spells is either to have a wealthy benefactor or to be able to cut running costs to an absolute minimum.
Jon
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Very fine tour Sean.
Some really super looking green complexes. Not too much tree encroachment either. Free-draining site?
Just shows you don't necessarily need more than 9-holes to have something a bit nice.
Do folks reckon that this bunker on the left side of the 1st hole is original? Seems a rather odd location particularly as it seems to be in front of the ladies tee!
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff114/seanrobertarble/LECKFORD%20GC/DSC04462_zps6pzrbuah.jpg)
atb
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Thomas,
if the fairway beyond the bunker went further up the banking on the left then I think that bunker would be well placed.
Jon
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ATB
To me, that forward bunker is a bit dopey. However, if it was made into an attractive feature which was more visually intimidating than I don't see an issue with its placement. There has to be room for some forward bunkers to challenge those who can't carry or hit the ball terribly far, but make them a sight to behold.
Although there is solid chalk underneath, I suspect the course will hold more water than is ideal in the winter. Without a doubt, the course plays like a parkland...which is pretty much the case for most downland courses. Mind you, due to the hilly nature of downland courses, they shouldn't be allowed to get too keen because it means greens like the 4th would be impossible to play. There is a happy balance.
Ciao
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Thomas,
if the fairway beyond the bunker went further up the banking on the left then I think that bunker would be well placed.
Jon
Exactly my thinking.
That large amount of rough along the left hand side was one of only two spots on the course where I suspected the fairway had been narrowed. The other bit was down the left of the 7th fairway where the best angle is now covered by a tree.
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To my thinking, the bunker has very little to do with why short grass should be better associated with the OOB. If there is short grass by the stakes it sends a message to the golfer that there is an option to play that way and therefore better utilize the OOB.
Ciao
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Sean,
You're assuming the OB has been there as long as the bunker. Maybe, maybe not.
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Sean,
You're assuming the OB has been there as long as the bunker. Maybe, maybe not.
Paul
When the OOB was instituted doesn't matter. Short grass skirting the OOB signals to the golfer that there is a route of play in that direction.
Ciao
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Sean,
Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
Just imagine, purely hypothetically since we really don't know, that that rough is all fairway, the trees and shrubs are still there by there is no OOB. Do you not see a line of play there flirting with the trees and straight over the bunker? I know I do.
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So to go back to my original question, do we reckon the left-side fairway bunker on the 1st is a Colt original placement or a later addition?
atb
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Thomas,
I am not sure as I have not played there but I get the impression that the left hand bunker is not so far off the tee. With that in mind I would suggest this bunker is an original Colt as it was common practice in Colt's day to place short bunkers to catch the topped shot. These days most bunkers that are in the line of play tend to require a good shot to carry them.
Jon
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Sean,
Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
Just imagine, purely hypothetically since we really don't know, that that rough is all fairway, the trees and shrubs are still there by there is no OOB. Do you not see a line of play there flirting with the trees and straight over the bunker? I know I do.
Paul
Yes, I definitely see a line of play over the bunker. All I am saying is that if there were fairway left of the sand it would send a stronger message that there is something to be gained by staying left. Whether or not that is true is a matter of opinion...for me mostly related to where the rough line is over the hill.
Ciao
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Sean,
Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
Just imagine, purely hypothetically since we really don't know, that that rough is all fairway, the trees and shrubs are still there by there is no OOB. Do you not see a line of play there flirting with the trees and straight over the bunker? I know I do.
Paul
Yes, I definitely see a line of play over the bunker. All I am saying is that if there were fairway left of the sand it would send a stronger message that there is something to be gained by staying left. Whether or not that is true is a matter of opinion...for me mostly related to where the rough line is over the hill.
Ciao
Ah, well in that case we're agreeing. ;D
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Sean,
Great to see Leckford get some more exposure...I visited (and did a photo tour) about 10 years back; it hasn't changed at all. It really was one of the truly private courses in the UK for many years (along with Rye, Swinley...)
Niall
I think it's perhaps Colt's best preserved course, old aerials are much the same. No meddling from member committees, architects or "experts". The flared up edges of greens (see 3rd) is pretty common on Colt's courses but there is a higher % of them at Leckford.
Course is about 1929 so towards end of the boom.
PS agree that the rough should be cut back on the left fairway of the 1st tee shot...the whole point of the tee shot is to try and bounce it off shallow valley bank. The second tee is a bit like this too...a good strategy is to bounce of the left side of the valley and avoid the central bunkers.
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Paul
I agree, if by accident or not, the cut lines for the greens may be the best I have seen for a Colt...though there are a few areas which could be improved. The other thing which made a very strong impression on me are the bench greens. They are so well done that its hard to call them bench greens.
I want to organize a GCA.com outing sometime...drag Spangles along for his own good.
Ciao
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Paul T
Many thanks for the comments. I think it's difficult sometimes to get a proper feel for an old dead guys work because there best known work is often rejigged in subtle and not so subtle ways over the years so a course like this is invaluable. Not sure when I'd ever find myself in Hampshire but would like to think I'd get to Leckford one of these days.
Niall
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I want to organize a GCA.com outing sometime...drag Spangles along for his own good.
I'd be keen to make up the numbers needed for a society if this ever happens.
It's been on my radar for a few years and never worked out how I'd sort a game. Looking at the tour I definitely want to see it!
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Tom,
I'm pretty sure you'd like it. I know you have an eye for the micro aspects of architecture and you could spend a lot of time discussing the subtlety of the benching with Sean! :)
In terms of strategy, it's slightly compromised in parts but really only slightly. It's a good example of what you can continue to get right without a century of committee members leaving their scent on the course.
The more I think about it the more I want to play the new course as well, just really to see how and why it falls short. I believe it's a Donald Steel creation which isn't reputed to have any real merit. It would be a lovely little job to bring that nine up to scratch.
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In the UK it's fairly common for a good quality older 9 holes to be botched into a lackluster 18 when a modern 9 is added. Thank goodness this didn't happen with Leckford. I doubt the total yardage has been increased by even 50 yards.
Although Sean is correct that there isn't a whole lot of danger off the tee, the greens are such that the approach difficulty varies with tee shot and flag placement.
In an English countryside way, it's a pretty course too. The trees aren't a big factor but are very fine specimens: between the 1st and 8/9th and the attractive settings of 3rd and 6th greens.
I reckon Leckford Old vies with Reigate Heath for #2 best 9 holer in the country.
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Paul,
Yes, it's very fortunate that the new course is completely separate from the old. Have you played the new course? As I was saying, it would be nice if it could be brought up to standard. How costly that would be I have no idea. I've not even taken a peak at it. In terms of maintenance, the current small crew already look after all eighteen holes no there wouldn't be a huge change there.
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Photo of 8th from 2005 I thought that perhaps a central fairway bunker had been filled in, where the depression is on the crest of the ridge.
What do you think? is it still there?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/paulturner/Colt/Leckford8.jpg)
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Yes, I think both Paul and myself noticed this slight depression. If there was a bunker there its a strange place for one. The fairway is much too narrow as it is and I think the trees (at least some) down the right are meant to be there.
Ciao
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Sean,
having not played the course this is a bit of a punt in the dark but if the first three trees on the right were removed this would open up the tee shot dramatically. From the photo the easy shot seems to be up the left side to allow the slope to bring the ball back especially if hitting a fade like most. With the trees block the right side at least visually it makes the tee shot look awful tight but if opened up the bunker would challenge easier shot up the left.
Jon
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Jon
There is an entire cops of trees between 1 & 8. The forward tree in my pic isn't really in play. I did discover on my two plays that
1. If one plays down the right side of the fairway and is long enough, the ball will not kick hard right.
2. If one plays up the left in the fairway, the ball kicks hard right and loses a ton of distance.
Ciao
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If the fairway is cut all the way to the hawthorn bushes on the left (and maybe cut those back), then I think the bunker would possibly make sense. The ideal line would be over the bunker for a good hit and if you can carry then a big kick forward would get you pretty close to the green.
But from Sean's 2015 pics, the fairway have been narrowed.
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Sean,
it is always difficult and perhaps foolhardy to try to judge from photos. I had the impression that the removal of said trees would allow a clear view of the whole green but maybe that is not the case. I think Paul is correct and I would also remove the hawthorns and vegetation back to the boundary line. Still that might be more visual than practical.
Jon
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That fairway is a bit narrow and at the time I think both Sean and I concluded it was a necessary evil because of the severity of the slope. On reflection though it does seem another five yards or so could be given up the left. It should be said however that the slope would almost certainly kick anything and everything to the right in all but the lushest of conditions, regardless of whether a bunker was being flirted with or not.
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I honestly can't see any need for a bunker in that spot or any other on this fairway. First, it would look very awkward. Second, the tee shot is demanding as is.
Ciao
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I honestly can't see any need for a bunker in that spot or any other on this fairway. First, it would look very awkward. Second, the tee shot is demanding as is.
Ciao
I'd agree with that. It's severe enough as it.
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From above it looks like a filled bunker.
There was definitely another one about 40 yards short of the green, right center. This one shows up as a bunker in a 1940s aerial (the big one is filled by then if it was a bunker). Depression in fairway is still visible now.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/paulturner/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-25%20at%207.47.09%20PM_zpsrumw6mne.png) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/paulturner/media/Screen%20Shot%202015-10-25%20at%207.47.09%20PM_zpsrumw6mne.png.html)
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Paul T,
Absolutely. The one short of the green would make perfect sense, particularly in the days of hickories. It would be a good inclusion even now, in my opinion.
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Paul T,
Absolutely. The one short of the green would make perfect sense, particularly in the days of hickories. It would be a good inclusion even now, in my opinion.
Paul
Why do you think a bunker 40 yards short of the green is the place for it to be? Why not 25 or 55?
Ciao
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I finally went and played this beauty yesterday. Thanks to this website (and Sean particularly) gems like this come to our attention. It was a thoroughly worthwhile day out.
The spur for this visit was my contact with our very own Clyde Johnson, who shall be helping course manager Daniel Robinson build some new alternate tees this coming winter. Daniel was kind enough to take me around and show me where they shall go. It's surprising that alternate tees have not been provided before and they shall certainly be welcome on the second lap around.
It was fascinating to study the Colt greens, which Daniel believes are genuinely the original surfaces. It is easy to believe this as the common Colt tropes of flared edges and bunkering on the high side is much in evident. They are a very engaging and technical set of greens, which still hold relevance in the modern era, even though the approach distances are generally much shorter than original.
With 600 members, Leckford can be quite a busy little course. There is a local membership in addition to the John Lewis arrangement, but one senses that the low key nature of the 'club' is much cherished by members who don't want to be bothered with having to book a tee through a pro shop. In the small pavilion there is a snack machine and a coffee machine. Green fees are paid into an honesty box and Daniel's office doubles up as a sort of pro shop if a visitor needs a few balls or tees.
Sean's photos do a fine job of giving us a flavour of the course. I'll just add a couple of the 8th hole, which appealed to me for the exacting nature of its approach shot, after the spectacular tee shot from on high. It's a typical Colt green that invites you to make use of the contour short and to the side of the green to feed the ball into the pin, but with the jeopardy of punishing hazards nearby.
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/jronimo/DSCN4316_zpscid7lzlb.jpg)
Green 8: Take aim at the deep bunker tucked into the hillside to the left and let the ball feed into the pin. Don't spunk it into the front bunker as I'm about to after a perfect drive (see ball in middle of fairway). It's about the hardest fairway to hit so I was delighted.
(http://i992.photobucket.com/albums/af45/jronimo/DSCN4317_zpsgrnr5qrg.jpg)
Behind Green 8: Typical of Colt with a bunker tucked into the hill on the high side of the green, with a highly flared green contour to help the approach shot, but which makes a controlled escape from the bunker doubly difficult. some beautiful little pockets on this green.
I found Daniel to be very welcoming and I think he appreciates the interest shown in his course by golf architecture devotees. I think genuine enquiries to visit will always be generously accommodated.
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Doc
Glad to see you received the Leckford Badge...its a special place.
Among a splendid set of greens, the last may be my favourite. It is incredible how well it sits into the landscape...just a great shaping job.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4322/35623260640_a23ff74600_b.jpg) (https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4322/35623260640_a23ff74600_b.jpg)
Ciao
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So, how is the new set of tees coming along?
Ciao
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What a great looking set of greens!
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So, how is the new set of tees coming along?
Ciao
They were doing it all in-house, but last I heard, they had them all built before Christmas. There were only four completely new tees - #3, #4, #5 and #9. The others were to be reclaimed from abandoned original tees, with the odd expansion and use of forward tees.
Hopefully they have filled in some of the non-original bunkers (by the second and fifth greens), and adjusted some of the mowing lines while they were at it.
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So, how is the new set of tees coming along?
Ciao
They were doing it all in-house, but last I heard, they had them all built before Christmas. There were only four completely new tees - #3, #4, #5 and #9. The others were to be reclaimed from abandoned original tees, with the odd expansion and use of forward tees.
Hopefully they have filled in some of the non-original bunkers (by the second and fifth greens), and adjusted some of the mowing lines while they were at it.
#9? Where would a tee go there? I can see the other holes being altered by tee width.
Ciao