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MClutterbuck

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Ladies Masters at ANGC
« on: April 24, 2015, 05:49:01 PM »
Lots of talk recently about something that will probably never happen, but would it not be interesting to see a Ladies Masters at ANGC? My guess is members tees would be too short, and maybe some of the old Masters tees can be brought back on selected holes. Would be nice seeing 3 shot par 5s and long approach shots at some par 4s again. I think the course would also play wider and with more strategic options.




JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2015, 05:52:37 PM »
I think it would be a great event. Doubtful it would happen but one never knows.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2015, 05:53:25 PM »
Is this a joke?
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2015, 06:00:12 PM »
Why a joke Mike? You think it would not be interesting?

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2015, 06:17:13 PM »
I think the ladies game would be better served creating its own traditions and highlights. Doing something like this could end up been at best a poor shadow of the men's event and at worst as the ladies selling themselves short with a tokenistic, cheap gesture.

Jon

Mike_Young

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Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2015, 06:23:21 PM »
Why a joke Mike? You think it would not be interesting?

I think it is just plain stupid.  ANGC is a private club and can do whatever they wish.  They did the right thing when they told the sponsors to bug off about the Martha Burke thing.  Billy Payne is the worst thing that has happened there and is commercializing a tradition.  Let the ladies do their own thing.  Ladies golf is boring to watch in the first place and it just needs to do it's own thing.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2015, 06:24:47 PM »
Was the Ladies US Open at Pinerhurst that? I think they sell themselves short by having 5 or 6 or who knows how many majors. A Ladies Masters at ANGC would eclipse the newer majors they have. It would be great marketing for the ladies to go to 4 majors including a Masters.

Anyway, my post was more about the actual play of the course and strategy than what it does to the ladies tour.

Greg Taylor

Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2015, 06:26:02 PM »
I enjoy watching the women's golf.

The swings are more varied and they play a less precise game.

But at women's Masters at ANGC? Not in our lifetimes!

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2015, 06:29:13 PM »
Why a joke Mike? You think it would not be interesting?

I think it is just plain stupid.  ANGC is a private club and can do whatever they wish.  They did the right thing when they told the sponsors to bug off about the Martha Burke thing.  Billy Payne is the worst thing that has happened there and is commercializing a tradition.  Let the ladies do their own thing.  Ladies golf is boring to watch in the first place and it just needs to do it's own thing.

Mike, I would be the first one to defend ANGCīs right to do what they please! I am not trying to shove this down their throught and I believe Payne would not go for something like this, nor the next Chairman. But I also think ladies golf is not always boring and would not be boring at ANGC.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2015, 06:29:57 PM »

Lots of talk recently about something that will probably never happen, but would it not be interesting to see a Ladies Masters at ANGC?
NO


My guess is members tees would be too short, and maybe some of the old Masters tees can be brought back on selected holes.

Would be nice seeing 3 shot par 5s and long approach shots at some par 4s again.

I think the course would also play wider and with more strategic options.

WHY would it play wider with more strategic options ?






MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 06:38:51 PM »

Lots of talk recently about something that will probably never happen, but would it not be interesting to see a Ladies Masters at ANGC?
NO


My guess is members tees would be too short, and maybe some of the old Masters tees can be brought back on selected holes.

Would be nice seeing 3 shot par 5s and long approach shots at some par 4s again.

I think the course would also play wider and with more strategic options.

WHY would it play wider with more strategic options ?






Because in certain holes from shorter tees you are not playing out of narrow chutes, so a player that can not easily play a fade or a draw or is not long enough to fade or draw around certain trees can more easily play to certain locations.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2015, 06:52:24 PM »
I think the ladies game would be better served creating its own traditions and highlights. Doing something like this could end up been at best a poor shadow of the men's event and at worst as the ladies selling themselves short with a tokenistic, cheap gesture.

Jon

I plan to make a suggestion (you'll see it Monday if you know where I write) on where the LPGA should establish its Masters equivalent. I don't think Mission Hills is the calibre of course needed for such a singular major championship. I also believe that the LPGA is positioned to be the first tour to have an Asian major. It has two US majors (Open and WPGA) and two Euro (Open and Evian), so my suggestion won't jibe if the fifth major is to ultimately find a home in Asia.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 06:58:06 PM »
Great idea.
Women's Masters

At CPC

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 07:07:04 PM »
 8) would rather see the girls playing ponte verde The Ladies Players
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 07:40:07 PM »
The unspoken benefit here is that a lot more people would be able to experience ANGC and the amazing job they do in putting on The Masters.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 08:00:29 PM »

I think the course would also play wider and with more strategic options.

WHY would it play wider with more strategic options ?


Because in certain holes from shorter tees you are not playing out of narrow chutes, so a player that can not easily play a fade or a draw or is not long enough to fade or draw around certain trees can more easily play to certain locations.

There are no narrow chutes from the Members tees.

The only narrow chutes are on holes like 7, 11 and 18, but, only from the very back tees, which at roughly 7,600 are not in the equation for anyone but e longest drivers.


Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2015, 08:01:48 PM »
Mike: Why is ladies' golf boring to watch? I watched the men almost exclusively until a few years ago, when I started to watch more of the ladies. Now I watch both, and I can honestly say that the ladies consistently produce a more interesting and exciting product. To say nothing about what Lydia Ko is doing, there is no disputing that the cream rises to the top more regularly in LPGA events than in PGA events (and I don't buy the theory that it's because there is greater depth in the latter than in the former), and that produces better Sundays. The ladies also have better (and more relatable) swings and better style. A one-off event at Augusta (not a Ladies Masters but perhaps a U.S. Women's Open) would be great to see.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 08:05:52 PM by Benjamin Litman »
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2015, 08:10:29 PM »
I think one woman's major should rotate, and if it hit AGNC and CPC and other great courses once in our lifetime it would awesome.

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2015, 08:12:44 PM »
I always kind of thought the Dinah Shore sort of acted as the LPGA's Masters.... It sort of built itself up that way. The shame in all that is that they play a pretty forgettable golf course (made worse by ugly mowing lines).

Augusta would never commit itself to a Ladies' Masters on their premises, but I wonder if they could be talked into having a Women's Open there as a one off. Of course, the ANGC would have to tell the USGA in no certain terms that "you will not lay a finger on anything". Wouldn't THAT be a fascinating battle of wills.

I'd still like to see the ladies play it in some form. The LPGA needs better venues.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 08:14:53 PM by Matthew Rose »
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2015, 08:15:23 PM »
Matt, I agree with you about a one-off U.S. Women's Open at Augusta.

And, Ron, I think a permanent Australasian major at Royal Melbourne would be wonderful.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2015, 08:27:31 PM »
Mike: Why is ladies' golf boring to watch? I watched the men almost exclusively until a few years ago, when I started to watch more of the ladies. Now I watch both, and I can honestly say that the ladies consistently produce a more interesting and exciting product. To say nothing about what Lydia Ko is doing, there is no disputing that the cream rises to the top more regularly in LPGA events than in PGA events (and I don't buy the theory that it's because there is greater depth in the latter than in the former), and that produces better Sundays. The ladies also have better (and more relatable) swings and better style. A one-off event at Augusta (not a Ladies Masters but perhaps a U.S. Women's Open) would be great to see.
The short game is boring and the pins are in easy locations and most good SEC men golfers could win every week out there.  NOW don't think I wish to keep the ladies from playing golf...I just have no desire to watch them.  I know that at one time ESPN had paid them like 28 mill for the TV rights for a season and could only sell 8 mill in advertising....A few years back an pretty average tour player was arguing with Laura Davies and said if he played the ladies tour it would not be a question of how often he would win but he would win each week.  She wanted to play for a mill and both tours said no way ....why?  because the guy was right....It's sort of like the tennis game where the top 4 men on any NCAA finals team could beat the Williams sisters consistently....and for those reasons people will not pay big money to watch...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jeff Bergeron

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2015, 08:28:02 PM »
This is a natural for Trump. His daughter should work with prominent women CEOs and others to establish a Womens national golf course. Same formula, limited commercials. no sponsorships and a great golf course. The powers that be in women's golf would hate it but so be it. This would work.
Remember the Masters had to hustle tickets until Arnie came on the scene.

Benjamin Litman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2015, 08:45:00 PM »
Mike: Why is ladies' golf boring to watch? I watched the men almost exclusively until a few years ago, when I started to watch more of the ladies. Now I watch both, and I can honestly say that the ladies consistently produce a more interesting and exciting product. To say nothing about what Lydia Ko is doing, there is no disputing that the cream rises to the top more regularly in LPGA events than in PGA events (and I don't buy the theory that it's because there is greater depth in the latter than in the former), and that produces better Sundays. The ladies also have better (and more relatable) swings and better style. A one-off event at Augusta (not a Ladies Masters but perhaps a U.S. Women's Open) would be great to see.
The short game is boring and the pins are in easy locations and most good SEC men golfers could win every week out there.  NOW don't think I wish to keep the ladies from playing golf...I just have no desire to watch them.  I know that at one time ESPN had paid them like 28 mill for the TV rights for a season and could only sell 8 mill in advertising....A few years back an pretty average tour player was arguing with Laura Davies and said if he played the ladies tour it would not be a question of how often he would win but he would win each week.  She wanted to play for a mill and both tours said no way ....why?  because the guy was right....It's sort of like the tennis game where the top 4 men on any NCAA finals team could beat the Williams sisters consistently....and for those reasons people will not pay big money to watch...

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, Mike, and I respect it, but I think you're missing out. Have you watched Lydia Ko's short game? It's magical. And I simply can't wrap my mind around the argument that watching women's sports is boring because men (at lower levels) can easily beat them. (By the way, the one problem with your tennis analogy is that the men and women get paid equal amounts now at the grand-slam events. The disparity in golf is far, far greater.)

Jeff: I LOVE the Trump idea. Brilliant.
"One will perform in large part according to the circumstances."
-Director of Recruitment at Agahozo-Shalom Youth Village in Rwanda on why it selects orphaned children without regard to past academic performance. Refreshing situationism in a country where strict dispositionism might be expected.

BCowan

Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2015, 09:23:21 PM »
This is a natural for Trump. His daughter should work with prominent women CEOs and others to establish a Womens national golf course. Same formula, limited commercials. no sponsorships and a great golf course. The powers that be in women's golf would hate it but so be it. This would work.
Remember the Masters had to hustle tickets until Arnie came on the scene.

Berg,

  Great post.  Would be a very wise idea for Ivanka to pursue. 

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ladies Masters at ANGC
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2015, 09:30:29 PM »
Mike: Why is ladies' golf boring to watch? I watched the men almost exclusively until a few years ago, when I started to watch more of the ladies. Now I watch both, and I can honestly say that the ladies consistently produce a more interesting and exciting product.

Women's golf is no more boring to watch then men's golf. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, it's all dreadfully boring to watch. I'm down to watching the back nine of the final round of the majors. I'll also put it on if it's a Saturday afternoon and I want something to take a nap to.

But I would tune in to see the LPGA players at Augusta.

Won't happen, but it would be interesting.

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