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Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #75 on: June 09, 2015, 10:29:37 AM »



Jeff - I'm guessing you'll have little problem driving there from Heathrow, but if you want to stay for a post-round pint, you might want to limit that activity as you re-engage with left side of the road driving. Enjoy.

"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Brent Hutto

Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #76 on: June 09, 2015, 10:45:44 AM »
Heading out there next month straight from Heathrow. Assuming I survive my first experience driving a car in the UK, it should be a wonderful day. Hopefully the heather is in bloom.

Get an automatic. Even if you drive a stick-and-clutch at home an automatic will give you one less thing to learn how to do backwards during that first, crucial, sleep-deprived hour on UK roads.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #77 on: June 09, 2015, 11:00:09 AM »
Heading out there next month straight from Heathrow. Assuming I survive my first experience driving a car in the UK, it should be a wonderful day. Hopefully the heather is in bloom.

Get an automatic. Even if you drive a stick-and-clutch at home an automatic will give you one less thing to learn how to do backwards during that first, crucial, sleep-deprived hour on UK roads.

Be aware that autos are not common in the UK, especially in the rental fleet. If you want one you must be sure to reserve it in advance.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Brent Hutto

Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #78 on: June 09, 2015, 12:42:11 PM »
Heading out there next month straight from Heathrow. Assuming I survive my first experience driving a car in the UK, it should be a wonderful day. Hopefully the heather is in bloom.

Get an automatic. Even if you drive a stick-and-clutch at home an automatic will give you one less thing to learn how to do backwards during that first, crucial, sleep-deprived hour on UK roads.

Be aware that autos are not common in the UK, especially in the rental fleet. If you want one you must be sure to reserve it in advance.

That's true. And even when you do reserve one in advance they'll occasionally try to talk you into a manual when you check in.

Worth persisting in my opinion, though. Even after a couple thousand miles driving "over there" on several trips I'd rather not push my luck by doing anything I don't have to in an unfamiliar way.

For me at Gatwick or Manchester the major car hire companies (Hertz, Sixt) have always been able to provide an automatic as did Arnold Clark(e) in Inverness. So I'm guessing it's possible at Heathrow too.

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #79 on: June 10, 2015, 11:30:43 PM »
I played SGH last year on a fantastic trip to England to play all the Golf Mag world's top 100 courses there and feel
  it is an absolute must play for any visit.   I just loved the flow and variety.  Reminded me
  a little of Yale. Along with Swinley Forest I thought it was the best heathland course I played.

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #80 on: June 11, 2015, 08:34:22 AM »
Thank you for all the tips on how to brave the UK roads, gents. I will definitely pay up for the automatic and the pints will just have to wait until I get back to the city. Playing SGH on a Thursday and I think I'll try to give Hankley a go on Saturday.
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #81 on: June 15, 2015, 06:15:25 AM »
Thank you for all the tips on how to brave the UK roads, gents. I will definitely pay up for the automatic and the pints will just have to wait until I get back to the city. Playing SGH on a Thursday and I think I'll try to give Hankley a go on Saturday.

Any thoughts Jeff?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: Width Matters
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2017, 05:18:59 AM »
All

The Winter Tour is underway; see the updated tour of St Georges Hill.  The club has embarked on a bunker project.  The 1st has seen quite a face lift with some new (and questionable) bunkers...including some work on the green.  I am not sure why the club wouldn't start with the 8th.  I also noticed tree removal which made parts of the Green Course on display.   

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36130.0.html

Previous courses on the Tour:

Huntercombe
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,32228.msg633321.html#msg633321

Worcester
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,49998.msg1348691.html#msg1348691

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 02:42:50 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2017, 06:28:11 AM »
They didn't start on the first exactly, it's just the most visible bit done so far. The club is working with Tim Lobb, who has rebuilt the bunkers on the third, the ninth and the thirteenth. The first was rebuilt because the green was not performing; it was a 20s green built by Hawtree and Taylor -- Colt's original was right on top of the hill --  and the green was very slightly bowled, which (a) meant it held water more than desired and therefore always had conditioning issues and (b) was out of character with the rest of the course. There was some discussion about whether to put it back on top, but the reason it was moved -- the severity of the climb -- is still true, plus there is now a very large water main up there which would make it basically impossible.


There are a number of issues around the course that need to be addressed. The seventh is odd and awkward, and the sixteenth has been changed entirely by tree planting up the left, designed to protect the houses on that side. It's very clear that Colt designed the hole to favour an approach from the left; but it's equally clear that isn't practical nowadays, so someone has to figure out another plan.


There is a possibility of a new back tee on 17 which would restore the strategy of the hump for everyone except the real bombers -- right now far too many ordinary golfers can just blow it straight past and ignore Colt's brilliant strategy. Tim and I found a spot for a new back tee on 14, right against the boundary fence, that would make it about 235 and return it to the extra-long one shotter that Colt designed, but I'm not sure there is much appetite to put it it. The fourteenth green was softened considerably in the 1920s; the front to back ridge used to be much more severe. Which is pretty hard to believe actually!


I think SGH is in many ways Colt's most interesting course. It gives the lie to any suggestion that he didn't build severe greens -- the tenth (which is also my favourite hole on the course) is still extreme, and a number were softened (by Colt) himself immediately after the course opened. George Duncan, who played in the opening day event, four putted one of the greens on the back nine, which caused a certain amount of stink. The eighth is obviously famous for the scale and drama of its bunkering (which I think will be put back at some point in the next few years) but it is also a pretty substantial piece of construction for 1913 -- you can see where he got the fill to build it in front of the ninth tee. Quite clever -- they excavated muck to create the little valley and used it to build the green, while at the same time giving visibility to the ninth drive (the eighth at Swinley is another hole that represented a substantial piece of construction for its time; next time you play there, look behind the green and you'll see the borrow pit where he got the muck).


The creation of the course is pretty well documented. Bernard Darwin visited the site at least a couple of times during construction and wrote about those visits.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2017, 07:01:02 PM »
Sean's right, the 8th hole is the place to start.  There is a picture in the hallway showing the way it was that ALL members walk by.  It is there to see for all.  Get to it SGH.


New bunkers and new tees can come or not come later.



It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2017, 12:43:53 PM »
Playing SGH next week - this has me pumped!

Matt Dawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #86 on: November 14, 2017, 10:23:16 AM »
Sean, thanks for updating the tour. Seems like you enjoyed yourself.

I'm a big fan of the recent changes, and although there isn't a before & after photo here for comparison, the 3rd hole for example looks in my opinion much more attractive post-bunker work. The bunkers generally seem "tied" into the surrounding heather more comfortably, and the top-lines are more visible on the tee shot . I think the vast majority of members are very happy with new 1st hole and work done in general. More will be done over the winter.

Re your statement about SGH greens being "bland" though, I respectfully disagree - I've talked before on here about the number of difficult greens with slopes and tiers…and as Adam says "It gives the lie to any suggestion that he (H.S.Colt) didn't build severe greens". So not sure I follow your logic on this point.

Alex - I hope you enjoy yourself. Let us know what you think

Jeff Spittel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #87 on: November 15, 2017, 11:42:05 AM »
Thanks for the update, Sean. And sorry I never responded a few years ago. I thoroughly enjoyed my day at SGH and I'll be interested to see if the bunker work is more consistent with the original style.


Unrelated to the course, the clubhouse is a fantastic place to relax over a pint.
Fare and be well now, let your life proceed by its own design.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2017, 05:12:16 AM »
Matt

My comments re the greens are relative to highly rated US courses....I do think of St Georges Hill as every bit as good as top 100 classic courses in the US.  I don't think there is much doubt that greens in GB&I are generally not as interesting when compared to similar quality courses in the US.  I think St Georges Hill has one of the better heathland sets, but I wouldn't say the greens contours/slopes are a feature....though some of the sites are absolutely sublime. 

Adam

Re 16, the problem is largely solved by not using the back tee.  There is space when crossing the road.  It isn't ideal, but what is the alternative for what is otherwise a very good hole. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2017, 09:31:43 AM »
Sean


First off, great tour. With regards to your comment regarding respective merits of top US and top UK greens, is it possible (and this is going to sound like heresy to some) that the UK greens suffer in that they aren't always quick enough to really bring out the contours ?


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #90 on: November 23, 2017, 08:45:41 PM »
Sean


First off, great tour. With regards to your comment regarding respective merits of top US and top UK greens, is it possible (and this is going to sound like heresy to some) that the UK greens suffer in that they aren't always quick enough to really bring out the contours ?


Niall

Niall

If anything, I would say US greens can be too quick to properly enjoy the contours...hence the general flattening of greens over many decades now.  However, I do take your point that GB&I greens can often be a tad slow.  But, I still think that a large percentage of greens on GB&I courses are not terribly interesting when compared to US greens.  I am not sure why this is the case...its long been a mystery to me.

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 09:51:10 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Conley Hurst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #91 on: December 07, 2017, 09:36:18 AM »
The Oxford University Golf Club had a fixture at St. George's Hill last Saturday which I was lucky enough to be a part of. As has been echoed throughout this thread, it is a truly special club and one of the best inland courses I have seen in England. Regarding the green contours, I found them to be quite impressive. The greens were rolling quick for December, probably in the 9-10 range. The bunker work on 1 and 3 looked fantastic, I thought.  They had also just completed greenside bunker work on 6 and were in the midst of extensive work on 13. Here and there throughout the course, they were working to reintroduce heather around the bunkers. 13, in particular, will be a much more visually striking hole after the work is completed, for better or for worse. As Adam mentioned, there is a new back tee going in on 17 which will add, by the looks of it, at least 20 yards to the hole.


Several of the members I talked to were fully intent on seeing 8 restored to its former glory. They seem to be good and proud stewards of their special course.

Matt Dawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #92 on: December 07, 2017, 09:56:22 AM »
The Oxford University Golf Club had a fixture at St. George's Hill last Saturday which I was lucky enough to be a part of. As has been echoed throughout this thread, it is a truly special club and one of the best inland courses I have seen in England. Regarding the green contours, I found them to be quite impressive. The greens were rolling quick for December, probably in the 9-10 range. The bunker work on 1 and 3 looked fantastic, I thought.  They had also just completed greenside bunker work on 6 and were in the midst of extensive work on 13. Here and there throughout the course, they were working to reintroduce heather around the bunkers. 13, in particular, will be a much more visually striking hole after the work is completed, for better or for worse. As Adam mentioned, there is a new back tee going in on 17 which will add, by the looks of it, at least 20 yards to the hole.


Several of the members I talked to were fully intent on seeing 8 restored to its former glory. They seem to be good and proud stewards of their special course.

Thanks Conley. I'm sorry to miss you, I was asked to play for the club but sadly couldn't make it. Glad you had a good day (and enjoyed the green contours!)

The idea is that the new back tee on 17th will be used sparingly, but yes it will make the hole much more challenging, especially with the hump on the right hand side of the fairway

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #93 on: December 07, 2017, 10:35:26 AM »
Glad to hear. I saw a photo of the new tee for 17 yesterday; there are still a couple of trees to come out, but it should restore the challenge of the hump for everyone except real bombers.


Conley, which college are you at?
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Conley Hurst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST GEORGES HILL: 2017-18 Winter Tour
« Reply #94 on: December 10, 2017, 07:57:36 PM »
Adam, I'm at Kellogg College.


Is the club working on any further tree removal alongside the bunker renovations?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Superior ST GEORGES HILL GC
« Reply #95 on: August 06, 2018, 06:32:45 AM »
I didn't notice any changes to the 8th, but most of the other holes now have the new bunkers.  To my eye, they look better than the older versions which still exist on 4, part of 5, 8 etc.  The course is a spendid as ever and a real joy to play.  See the significantly updated tour.

www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,36130.0.html

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

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