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Matt_Ward

Re: Can someone please define "Classic Courses?"
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2003, 11:04:36 AM »
Tom M:

One further thing -- when you say a course is "classic" is it also not "great?" I just don't use the word "great" and "classic" that often because in my feeble little brain the terms mean so much. But as Pat is wont to say -- I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

T_MacWood

Re: Can someone please define "Classic Courses?"
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2003, 11:35:47 AM »
Matt
"I just don't use the word "great" and "classic" that often because in my feeble little brain the terms mean so much."

You lost me there. You're being too hard on yourself...no one said anything about your brain being feebled.

As I said before I'm not too crazy about the term...for one it leads to confusion illustrated by your own odd use of the word.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Can someone please define "Classic Courses?"
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2003, 12:12:26 PM »
Tom MacWood,

I noticed you mentioned that to you a classic means to be enduring.  I am wondering how many courses you would consider classic.  I'm not trying to start anything, but can we really say that any courses have endured over significant periods of time.  For instance, Prairie Dunes did not endure as it was originally conceived and has had some alterations since Press did his work there.  Riviera is an example, as are many other originally great layouts that have been altered over time for one reason or another.  Augusta I would consider a "classic" course but not because of its endurance, but because of the fact that a large amount of great architecture is still there and it has such an influence on the ideas of architecture strictly due to its exposure since its founding.  Sawgrass and Firestone would be two other courses that probably had a significant effect on the current state of design and I would probably consider them somewhat classic for their particular styles of design and they've only been around a relatively few years in their current incarnations.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

T_MacWood

Re: Can someone please define "Classic Courses?"
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2003, 01:04:35 PM »
Chris
As I said before I don't use the term as it relates to golf architecture because it is too confusing. Any term that is also used to describe Greek and Roman aesthetics is not useful in describing the works of those talented golf architects of the first decades of the 20th C.

And no one agrees. One poster's definition is the 1920's. You said it could be used to describe some of Pete Dye's early courses. Another says it means strategic. Another says it is older indicative of a particular style popular between 1900 and 1940.

Is the term used to describe a sylistic movement: Greek and Roman aesthetics: ballanced, symetrical, formal, restrained, regular, simple.
Is the term used to describe golf courses "of the highest rank; being a model of its kind", for example: Cypress Point is a classic example of 1920's naturalistic design or Pine Tree is a classic example of post WWII architecture or Harbour Town is a classic example of post-RTJ architecture.
Is the term used to describe a golf course that is famous or well known, especially being traditional or typical. not very illustrative unless it is matched with a more descriptive aesthetic style or strategic style or age/era/movement

The use of the term when describing literature or automobiles or music or many other art forms is usually enduring. You take the use of the word enduring too literally. The designs, design methods and design theories of Donald Ross are enduring even if his golf courses aren't all presented in mint condition. The big picture. Or you can go the opposite directions, perhaps a single hole endures or green or bunker or a strategy. Very small surviving features can illustrate a certain classic type.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Can someone please define "Classic Courses?"
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2003, 03:08:24 PM »
Tom has it, I believe. But, still, it is a term that will be used...so why not quantify it here? What better place? The term "championship" is bogus, yet I quantified it somewhat just to put to rest my frustration over its use. When you say something is, it can become easier than not.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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