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Carlyle Rood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« on: April 09, 2003, 12:01:05 PM »
I think I have a practical and reasonable way to address golf course rankings.  What golf needs is a BCS formula.  

We'll take Jeff Sagarin's rankings (from tournament scores relative to strength of field and margin of victory), the USGA course ranking and slope, and factor in polls from Golf Digest (writers) and NCAA coaches.

Of course, determing conference champions may be more difficult; but, we could leave that up to each region.  Pebble Beach may be a heavy favorite; but, should they commit a lot of turnovers, an underdog like Pasatiempo could sneak into the dance.

Careful consideration has to be applied to maintain traditonal match-ups where possible; e.g., Pinehurst #2 vs. Augusta National.  We also have to make provisions so that hot courses in smaller conferences have an opportunity to compete.  So if a course (like Pacific Dunes) in an underrepresented state (like Oregon) has an excellent season, then it will be afforded an opportunity to compete with a traditional power (like Baltusrol).

Of course, we'll have to meet every winter to discuss whether changes are necessary to the formula.  In any event, I think you'll see this is a far more democratic way to rank courses.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2003, 12:05:50 PM »
Aha... muy interesante... so is Pine Valley the Kentucky of golf?  That is, always at the top, just a given.... or maybe this honor goes to Augusta??

And Pacific Dunes would have to the the Gonzaga of golf... newcomer on the national scene, damn well may be better than all the rest, very tough to prove because not enough see it or because so many just stick with the tried and true big conference powers / old name courses???

John Conley needs to see this.  If ever there were a thread perfect for him... He's an expert on BCS, RPI, all college sports, on top of being a golf nut like us.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Carlyle Rood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Conferences
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2003, 12:10:54 PM »
Who has the best conference?

Southeastern Conference (SEC): Augusta National, Pinehurst #2, TPC Sawgrass, Shoal Creek, Seminole

I need a little help with the others.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2003, 12:16:16 PM »
SEC is gonna be tough, but ACC might claim Augusta...

Sticking with what I know, how about my beloved lil ole West Coast Conference?

Santa Clara - Pasatiempo
USF - SFGC
St. Mary's College - Olympic Club (well, it is within reason)
Pepperdine - Riviera
LMU - LACC
USD - Barona or Torrey
Gonzaga - Coure d'Alene
Portland - Bandon/Pacific.

I feel good about our little-known conference...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Carlyle Rood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2003, 12:37:45 PM »
I can see Pinehurst in the ACC, but Augusta National is much closer to Athens than Atlanta.

ACC - Pinehurst, Peachtree, The Dunes G.C., Harbour Town
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2003, 12:43:30 PM »
My GA geography is lacking, obviously!  OK, Augusta belongs to UGa.

I'm trying to think how an eastern conference could align to all those great NY/NJ/Philadelphia courses... who gets Pine Valley, for example?

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Steve_L.

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2003, 12:44:14 PM »
Tom,

Sorry, I'm afraid you have your beloved West Coast Conference confused with MY beloved PAC-10 Conference...

Steve
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

GeoffreyC

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2003, 12:52:04 PM »
Ivy League

Princeton- Pine Valley
Columbia- Winged Foot
Yale- Yale
Brown - Wannamoisett
Harvard- The Country Club
Cornell- Oak Hill
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2003, 12:52:44 PM »
Your beloved Pac-10 is just a bunch of big CCFADs.  My WCC is full of quirky cool clubs.  You are Pelican Hills, we are NGLA.

 ;D ;D ;D

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Steve_L.

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2003, 12:59:16 PM »
Tom,

Did I misunderstand...???  I thought YOU had Coeur d'Alene in your conference...  I recall the bagtag from my visit there saying something like "Member for a Day".

Heads up - I'm seeing this thread degenerating quickly...  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2003, 01:00:28 PM »
Hey, I had to find something near Gonzaga (Spokane, WA).

BTW, I went to Santa Clara and hate Gonzaga with a passion.  Me giving them what many have called a one-hole course with even that hole being gimmicky was not an accident.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2003, 01:22:56 PM »
How about I get the Pac 10 started

Oregon (my alma mater)-Eugene Country Club

Oregon St.-Trysting Tree (University built the course.  Golf team plays there.  About a Doak 4-5)

Washington-Wash. Nat'l (Newest Fought design.  Golf team plays there)

Washington St.-I DON'T KNOW

UCLA-Bel Air (hell, you can see part of the campus from there)

USC-I DON'T KNOW

Stanford-Stanford Golf Course(Mackenzie design, where Tiger honed his game)

Cal. Berkeley Bears-(Claremont?  old Mackenzie on a hill)

Arizona-some desert course (we ducks hate desert)
         (Talking Stick, Troon, TPC Scottsdale)  

Arizona St.-some desert course (we ducks hate desert)
         (I.E.  see above)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2003, 01:27:15 PM »
mdugger - we did this exact exercise some time back, trying to determine the best college courses, sticking to on-campus sites or very close courses on which the team plays, etc.  It was a pretty fun read....

I'd say more leeway is allowed in this whimsical "ranking", like me giving Pacific and Bandon to U. Portland...

Based on that, USC can have LACC or Riviera... hell they can even have Rustic Canyon if one wishes.  

I'm still not sure what WSU gets - lump them in with Gonzaga!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2003, 01:36:16 PM »

Quote

And Pacific Dunes would have to the the Gonzaga of golf... newcomer on the national scene, damn well may be better than all the rest, very tough to prove because not enough see it or because so many just stick with the tried and true big conference powers / old name courses???


Th - Are you sure you don't mean to compare Gonzaga to Rustic Canyon ;)  

Some might agree based on a comment you have down below ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2003, 01:38:24 PM »
Mike - remember I LIKE Rustic Canyon.  Honestly, I do.  Please don't sic Naccarato and Moriarty on me again here....

But yes, I was being way too nice to Gonzaga in that initial statement.  I ought to give them freakin' San Jose Muni.  I cannot deny their hoops success though, as hard as I try....

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2003, 01:39:54 PM »

Quote

Stanford-Stanford Golf Course(Mackenzie design, where Tiger honed his game)


Stanford was not a Mackenzie design .... George Thomas and Billy Bell did the work ...

And yes, Tiger was there, but Tom Watson was there longer ...

http://www.stanfordgolfcourse.com/history.htm

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

THuckaby2

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2003, 01:41:02 PM »
Good catch there, Mike.  Mucho correcto.  I just blazed by that in my zeal to screw Gonzaga.   ;D

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2003, 01:48:29 PM »

Quote
Sticking with what I know, how about my beloved lil ole West Coast Conference?

Santa Clara - Pasatiempo
USF - SFGC
St. Mary's College - Olympic Club (well, it is within reason)
Pepperdine - Riviera
LMU - LACC
USD - Barona or Torrey
Gonzaga - Coure d'Alene
Portland - Bandon/Pacific.

I feel good about our little-known conference...


Good call on our conference, too bad we don't have the golfers to play these courses ... you and I are the exception of course ;)

I would recommend switching USF to the O Club as the common path is St. Ignatius / USF (or Santa Clara) with a Junior O Club membership along the way ... We can attach SFGC to Santa Clara for post-graduate work ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Steve_L.

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2003, 01:52:03 PM »
Damn the luck - I went to WSU...  And please don't lump us in with Gonzaga...

Spokane has a terrific public layout (H. Chandler Egan) called Indian Canyon...  Highly underrated and suffers from municipal grade maintenance...  I'll take it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

DMoriarty

Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2003, 01:53:54 PM »

mdugger.

Stanford is George C. Thomas.  Don't take anymore away from him, he doesnt have enough left as it is.

I'd put UCLA with LACC.  The initials kind of go together and they are both in Westwood, a few blocks apart.

I'd put USC with one of the Griffith Park courses, in part because they are both near downtown L.A., but mostly because it would be fun to see the USC Loyalists bristle at having to be associated with a lowly public course.  

I'd put Washington State with either Bel Air or Riviera, since they do all their recruiting in Southern California anyway.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Solution to Golf Course Rankings
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2003, 02:25:25 PM »
My bad, I think maybe I got it mixed up with Ohio State Scarlet.  Now you are going to tell me that's a Doak and Mackenzie did Michigan...sticking with the football theme.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

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