[Forrest Richardson]

Robert Trent Jones II gave a humorous, but also serious, talk late year about equalizing golf in light of the increasing technology. "Abolish the tee on the tee", he reasoned.

Sound foolish? Think more deeply.

Consider that the wooden tee is a recent advancement -- about 1950. It has allowed players to use lesser angled clubfaces and has taken the element of ground condition out of the equation on the tee shot. What may be a 240-yard tee shot for a well versed golfer is now easily 300-yards or more. What would that 300-yard shot be if hit off a pile of sand or right on the turf? I guarantee it would not be 300-yards.

Jones went further in his talk to suggest that -- and this part was very funny -- that in addition to abolishing the tee on the tee, we also MANDATE that the new "super drivers" be used when a player is on the tee! Imagine Tiger hitting his Nike XP-4000-MDX (or whatever) off the barren turf...and imagine the barren turf once 144 tour players ate up the tee surface during an average day!

A lot of here are pure players -- but why do we all buy into the tee notion? It was not around in 1925, nor was any such artificial device or allowance.

With all the talk about technology and the troubles of solutions, right at our disposal is a small and insignificant device that could easily be outlawed.

[Kevin_Keeley]

Ingenious stuff, just brilliant. That'll really go over well, and really help grow the game.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Forrest,
For it to be at all feasible you'd have to abolish the act, not just the device.
I think you are wrong about a sand tee as an impediment to 300 yd. drives. There would be no loss in distance. Go out in your backyard and prove this to yourself.  
The act of placing, or even dropping, the ball on the tee box would take on a life of its own, S-L-O-W.
Supers would go nuts as their tees were turned into shredded wheat.

p.s. I didn't mean to be so negative.  

[Forrest Richardson]

I went out in the backyard and...damn! Sorry Mrs. Cooksey.

[A_Clay_Man]

Forrest- I wouldn't put too much credence in this idea and if I were to have a cool drink with Mr. Jones I would introduce him to Casey Boynes and show him how Casey hits it off the deck as far and as accurate as any California Amatuer Champion or pro should. 300+ yds.

While Casey is not a big man I think any pro would and could do the same.

It is an amazing site, especially when you're in front of him.  

[Forrest Richardson]

Fine, so we'll erect desks at each tee. I'm for that!

Try this: Go to Piρon Hills this wekend and grab the macho kid who hits it 300+. Take away his wooden tees and have him play 18 holes. Report back.

Fact is: Wooden tees are a modern implement that has changed the game immeasurably. It is a simple, yet wicked improvement to golf. It has spawned an entire culture of clubmaking, driving style, driver head size, etc. It has also contributed perhaps 50 yards on the tour as it facilitates such clubmaking.

[ChasLawler]

It would be interesting to see this implemented in the professional ranks, similar to how professional football kickers are not allowed to use a tee when kicking field goals, but college and high school kickers are.

[A_Clay_Man]

Forrest- Casey is at Pebble Beach. The point being if he does it all the time and has won everything the NCGA has to offer, others can and will do it too. Also, since a 300 yard drive counts as much as 6 inch putt, shouldn't any fix-all cures take place at the greensite, ala Rustic Canyon?

[Forrest Richardson]

It is not a mutally exclusive issue. Golf architecture needs to attack all fronts -- rules, procedures, equipment, greens, hazards, conditions, etc.

Let me ask you this: Why do you use a wooden tee on the tee? (Hint: Tradition handed down by someone who taught you the game...now, ask yourself: Was it a true tradition, or not?)

I still like the desk idea!

[Steve Lang]

You mean you don't just wack backwards with your club and form a little mound of dirt to hit off of?

[Forrest Richardson]

No...play it as it lies! You must place your ball upon the turf. End of story. No more high tech wooden pegs! Since no major manufacturer gets rich off wooden tees, we have no problem in that department. Simply outlaw the pesky little device that was no where near golf until just before I was born.

[ChipOat]

Somebody would come up with a solution other than pure H2O to mix with sand so that 2-3" sand tees would be do-able and, as stated would add 20-30 minutes per foursome per round.

Either off the deck or wooden tees but no in-between, please.

Personally, while the "no tee" idea has some appeal to the purist in me, my guess is that either 90% of the clubs in this country would adopt a local rule permitting their use, or the number of active golfers would decline significantly - particularly the higher handicappers.

Swinging away with the Big Stick is just too much fun and, for the lesser player, fairway metals and long irons/utility clubs are just too difficult.

There would sure be a boom in shallow-faced drivers and brassies for those golfers who remain, though.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Now let me get this right. You want to defend Fazio, yet abolish wooden tees?

Forrest, I'm a purist, and like Chip, I would mind using my own hand to form a stool of sand for which my ball to sit upon. Heck, it would even give you architects more business because of all the tees you would have to be consulting on for rebuilding because they became so uneven from all of the build-up of sand.

BUT.......................

Where are you getting that time period on wooden tees?

The first artificial tees were produced in the late 1880's, and in 1889 a patent was awarded for a tee consisting of a rubber platform with protruding fingers to support the ball. Various styles of these surface mounted tees were used in the 1900's. The inserted or peg-type tee we are most familiar with today was available in the 1890's, but it wasn't until the Reddy Tee, the basis of today's modern conical shaped-tee came on the market in the 1920's and became so popular that it replaced the sand tee. It was patented by a dentist in New Jersey named Dr. William Lovell.

[Forrest Richardson]

1. I am not defending Fazio, I am merely suggesting that, if able to personally discuss issues with him, it is my feeling that you would not have the same opinion you do from reading quotes embedded in a short journalistic product (media).

2. Stool! My God, man, you bring up awful visuals.

3. The 1950s were when the wooden tee became popular. Yes, there were all sorts of implements prior to that, but the 1950s marked the oncoming of their use. But, does that matter? Even 1850 is recent in terms of golf.

As to the other comments: You could easily abolish tees or even "artificial teeing of the ball". Perhaps we instigate a drop method at the tee? Hey, such a rule (a simple matter) would open the door for clubmakers to create even newer clubs for hitting off of unfortunate lies on the tee!

Back in a moment, I'm rushing to buy some Callaway stock!

[Bob_Huntley]

Forrest.

Your comment on wooden tees is an anachronism. They were in use way before the 1950's. See any film of golf tourneys prior to your timeline, you will see tes being inserted into the ground.

[A_Clay_Man]

I will agree that having to play off the deck could bring back some aspect of shotmaking but, without interior contours to the teeing ground, it won't be much.

 I'd compromise on this wish list with no wooden tees but only if there were also no flat teeing grounds.

[Forrest Richardson]

I'll believe you -- still doesn't matter to the concept.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Forrest,
A bit of trivia: Between the years 1927/1929 there were 64 patents issued for various types of tees.
The wooden tee may be a relative newcomer but not the concept. The act of teeing the ball was part of the original rules of golf, which date back some 250+ years. Although the rule states "Your Tee must be upon the Ground" it was so worded to keep the plane of the swing as we know it and not waist or chest high.
For it to be added into the first set of rules it must have already been a long time practice. Do you really believe it's worth sacrificing such an integral part of the game?

[Forrest Richardson]

Jim -- The artificial "peg" tee is not an integral part of the game, except to all of us "modern" golfers. It is a rather recent development. I do not agree that there is evidence of artificial teeing implements being used widespread much before the 1930s. In fact, the widespread use of wooden peg tees began, as I noted, around the 1950s. Before that there were artificial devices, but mostly a kick or sand pile used. Early golfers could not or would not afford such items. Most of the patents you cite were failed ideas that sold rather poorly. This is why they are rare collectibles -- not many were made/sold and not many have therefore endured.

I take tremendous exception to your statement that artificial tees are an integral part of the game. Perhaps artificial "teeing", but not artificial tees.

Do I ever feel this idea has merit? Sort of. But mostly it might get us thinking about how such a small item COULD affect golf positively. Perhaps it will spawn another, better, idea...

[George Blunt]

I am not sure how it would affect my game, but I do know that Steve Williams would have to learn how to balance a ball on the end of his finger real fast.

I can just see it now, the difference between a good PGA tour caddie and a bad one would be measured by the thickness of his finger - and by his/her affliction with the DT's!

Forrest I agree with your last statement, and would remind people that when you are brain storming a topic looking for a creative solutiun - there are no bad ideas.  Some work, others don't.  But to solve problems you must start with the premise that there is no such thing as a bad idea.

Cheers,

George

[Jim_Kennedy]

Forrest,

-- The artificial "peg" tee is not an integral part of the game, except to all of us "modern" golfers.

I never said it(artificial peg) was, only that the concept of "teeing" is.  

I do not agree that there is evidence of artificial teeing implements being used widespread much before the 1930s. In fact, the widespread use of wooden peg tees began, as I noted, around the 1950s.

Lowell convinced Hagen and Kirkwood  to use it on one of their exhibition tours and by 1921 the use of the wooden golf tee emerged full scale,
 

Most of the patents you cite were failed ideas that sold rather poorly. This is why they are rare collectibles -- not many were made/sold and not many have therefore endured.

I just included that as some trivia, that's all. It wasn't meant to bolster my position or lessen yours.

I take tremendous exception to your statement that artificial tees are an integral part of the game. Perhaps artificial "teeing", but not artificial tees.

Read my post. I never once said that anything other than a clot of earth was integral to the game, only that the act of teeing is.

Do I ever feel this idea has merit? Sort of. But mostly it might get us thinking about how such a small item COULD affect golf positively. Perhaps it will spawn another, better, idea...

I am in total agreement.

[Forrest Richardson]

Jim -- Thanks for the info.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Dr. William Lowell was a member of Maplewood C.C. in NJ.

I caddied there as a kid.

In 1921, 60 yeard old dentist, Dr William Lowell took up golf.  The tee building process roughened his hands, a poor condition for a member of his profession.
Lowell went home one day after a round and whittled himself a wooden peg, cupped at the top.  At first, even his playing companions scoffed at the idea.  But Lowell persisted with his Reddy Tee.

The Lowells filed for a patent on May 5, 1922.
They formed the Nueble Manufacturing Company in NYC.
Their break came after they gained the endorsement of trick-shot artist Joe Kirkwood and the flamboyant Walter Hagen, who would stroll down tournament fairways with  a Reddy Tee stuck jauntily behind one ear.

The course was designed by the "members" according to Golf Clubs of the MGA.
It is quite quirky.

Forrest -
It sounds like everyone is scoffing at your idea...

Cheers

[Mike Hendren]

I have been trying like the Dickens to post a picture of Reddy Tees from e-bay.  I fear I am lost on the information dirt road.  One of the items includes a list of attributes of the Reddy Tee.  Can one of you guru's please search "Reddy Tee" on e-bay and post the pictures here?  I give up - Uncle :-/

Regards,

Mike

[Forrest Richardson]

It's not my idea, but was a paper and speech delivered by Robert Trent Jones II -- a thoughtful presentation, I might add.

I rather enjoy the scoffing. Shows the idea has promise!

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