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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted...
« on: April 09, 2003, 05:15:10 PM »
...and the subject matter is that of the club history book.

Jeff authored the recently released One Hundred Years, A History of Essex Golf & Country Club: 1902-2002 which centers around the very fine Ross layout in Windsor, Canada (it was once ranked among the world top 100 by GOLF Magazine). Unlike the vast majority of club history books with which I am familiar, Jeff's holds a high degree of interest for anyone interested in golf course architecture.

And aren't there numerous benefits for a club in having such a book that factually details the evolution of the club's golf course?  Does anyone else think club history books can be a great medium for educating the membership as to what they have as well as what they have had? And isn't there only upside in having a well informed membership?

On a side note, I wish clubs/resorts would publish what I still term a club "history" book within just a couple to five years of opening. As the great courses like Friar's Head or PacDunes or Rustic Canyon or Hidden Creek start evolving, isn't it beneficial to have that book as a stake in the ground so that the decision makers that follow will have a clear understanding/appreciation on many of thoughts and guiding ideas behind the founding and original design of the course?

Anyway, several who contribute to this site (Paul, Bahto, Shackelford, etc.) have done their clubs a great service by penning club history books rich with architectural insight. It takes a person with a special passion to do so and there are more than a few such people like that who frequent this site. Hopefully, some will bring their architectural knowledge to bear and pen meaningful club history books - the game is well served by such efforts and hopefully there will be many more like Jeff's to come.

Hope you enjoy this month's Feature Interview.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Yancey_Beamer

Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2003, 05:42:33 PM »
Great Interview!
It was quite special for me to play Jeff's list of  recommended courses in Eastern Canada last year.How do you improve on superb followed by superb!
Thanks Jeff!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ian

Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2003, 05:56:05 PM »
Ran, I really enjoy this feature of the site. There is a lot to be gained from each of these interviews. I enjoyed the interview and what Jeff had to say about the club (and club histories in general).

Having played Essex a few times, it was suprising to see the 47' aerial photo. I always thought the course was great, but too claustrophobic to play regularly. I'm looking forward to buying a copy from Jeff, and learning more about the changes. For anyone in the area, the greens alone are worthy of study, some like the 4th are truly genius.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2003, 06:06:58 PM »
I have read Jeff's history book of Essex and was so impressed that I even asked if he would help us out at Beverly CC for our 100th Anniversary book in 2008!! ;)

Great job, Jeff!! :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2003, 05:38:21 AM »
Thanks for the compliments on the interview, and the book.

When Ran asked me to do a Feature Interview on putting together a club history book, I thought, there's no way that subject could be interesting to GCAers! So, I'm glad at least a few of you enjoyed what I had to say!

As you know, Paul, I'm looking forward to visiting Beverly this season. And also, the potential of assisting you with your forthcoming club history. By all accounts, Beverly is yet another special Donald Ross layout. Thus, its history, evolution and restoration (currently being orchestrated by Ron Prichard) should also be properly documented.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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jeffmingay.com

Norbert P

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2003, 01:06:53 PM »
From disciple to apostle.  Jeff, it sounds like you've educated yourself as well as the members of Essex.  I didn't know you were so young.  I've always thought your posts and articles wise and reasonable and assumed you to be older.  My bad.  I applaud you in your reasoning of adding Roseland to the book. "Labour of love" indeed.  Great interview gentlemen.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Bill_McBride

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2003, 01:15:02 PM »
Ran, thanks as usual for securing and posting a very informative interview.  This one was very interesting indeed.  The most interesting feature to me was the "before" and "after" 1947 and 1998 aerial photos.  Think how much more fun it would have been to play the before than the after!  The fairways narrowed inside the bunkers is really revealing - do you think that was a conscious decision to save the cost of maintaining fairway acreage?  A lot of balls would never make it to the bunkers, hitting in and stopping in the rough.

Wouldn't you love to see the before and after of the newly trimmed Oakmont?!

Thanks, and much appreciation to Jeff for the interesting interview.  This is the kind of thing that keeps me interested in GCA!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2003, 02:31:02 PM »
Bill,

You ask about the fairways. One of my favourite stories from the book is about Bruce Matthews I coming to Essex on a consulting visit during the mid 1960s.

The course's first fairway watering system had been installed only a few years earlier, in 1961, and the club felt it was spending too much money on water. (This was before the pond was installed between the 11th and 13th fairways, to remedy the same problem, in 1969.)

Mr. Matthews recommended narrowing the fairways to 145 feet across, as a first step. THAT'S 48 YARDS (!), which clearly indicates some of the fairways at Essex still exceeded 50 yards across during the mid 1960s!

When the 1976 Canadian Open came to Essex, RCGA officials narrowed the fairways and re-contoured them again. Basically, they retain those same (un-Ross-like) shapes today, and average a mere 26.4 yards wide. Keep in mind, the USGA uses 28-32 yard widths during the US Open.

And still, some low handicap Essex members think the fairways are too wide!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Ran Morrissett

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2003, 05:45:25 PM »
Ian,

What are some of the (other) best club history books in Canada? I have Hathstauwk, but it is very light on detailing Stan the Man's brilliant work at Capilano.

Does St. George's have a good one? What if such a book was to highlight the fact that today's course has ~ 90-100 less bunkers than Thompson's original design? Couldn't that be useful?

What are some of the finest club history books country by country?

A Course for Heroes by FR Furber on Royal St. George's is superb and I HIGHLY recommend it. Woking's is good as is the centenary one of Westward Ho! (which was publiushed in 1964!).

Royal Melbourne's is shockingly devoid of discussing its two courses. I remember buying a cellophane copy in the clubhouse without browsing through it. Once onboard the plane, I broke into it and recall being done with it before being airborne  :(  My middle brother still considers it the lamest Christmas present that I've ever given him  ;D

In fact, at the moment, I don't recall seeing a really well done club history book in Australia - surely there are several?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Chris Kane

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2003, 06:00:07 PM »
Ran,
I can't think of any published histories of the Melbourne clubs which feature well-done sections on the course.  Royal Melbourne, Metro, Victoria etc., are focussed on the clubs rather than the courses.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2003, 06:20:59 PM »
Ran

Enjoyed the interview with Jeff, I've looked at few club history books this year.

My personal hero of club histories is RHK Browning, this chap visited just about every significant club in Britain through the 1930s,40s,50s (maybe 20s but not sure).  He wrote these simple, but ubiquitous club handbooks, which include detailed hole by hole accounts, plans and decent photography (most of the black and white pics I've posted are from these booklets).  In some cases, you can piece together a club's development just from these booklets since many have several editions.  And even now they are relatively cheap ($30)... great to collect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2003, 06:22:42 PM »
Ran
They are all terrible here if you are interested in the golf courses and how they have evolved.
The Australian has a book where there are three pictures of the course prior to Nicklaus redoing it in 1977.Plus some lame single pencil line drawings of the five different layouts they have played over the hundred years of their history.
They are much more the social history of the clubs -which is increadibly boring if you don't know the people.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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T_MacWood

Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2003, 07:07:39 PM »
I agree with Paul, the best Club histories I have read are from Britain. Royal Montreal's history isn't bad. In the US HB Martin only wrote a couple I know of, but they are quite good. The Golf Club's is good. The problem with club histories is they document the history of the club.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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George Pazin

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2003, 07:45:25 PM »
Thanks Ran & Jeff - great interview. It always makes such a difference when the subject takes the opportunity to give thoughtful answers.

You weren't seriously suggesting someone could glean information regarding the evolution of a course through aerials, were you? :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2003, 08:30:13 PM »
"...isn't it beneficial to have that book as a stake in the ground so that the decision makers that follow will have a clear understanding/appreciation on many of thoughts and guiding ideas behind the founding and original design of the course?"

This is an idea that I've tried to get clients to enlist, Ran. Unfortunately it is an undertaking that the architect must absorb. Much like decent photography, there is often not a budget. But enough with excuses! I agree. Does anyone have an idea on how we might see this ideal through to reality? Is there an interest among GCA-ers to visit a course and create a living history?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Feature Interview with Jeff Mingay is posted..
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2003, 05:14:37 AM »
Ran,

Jim Barclay, who authored Stanley Thompson's biography (The Toronto Terror), is a St. George's member, currently at work on a club history book to be out in 2004 in celebration of St. George's 75th anniversary.

As for the bunkers there, hopefully Ian will chime in. He and Doug Carrick are in the process of re-installing some of those long-lost hazards, as I understand.

I can only think of one Canadian club history that really gets into the golf course. That's Rosedale history, by Jack Batten.

It's amazing, there are many books on the history of Canadian golf clubs with outstanding, historical courses - like Toronto, Hamilton and Victoria, for example - that missed a wonderful opportunity to document the design history and evolution of some remarkably historic layouts. Oh well.

I've gently expressed my feelings to Jim Barcaly, regarding the importance of documenting the design history and evolution of St. George's in his forthcoming book. I hope he does so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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