[DMoriarty]

Rich recently claimed that, in regards to strategic options, width doesnt matter to top quality golfers.  Inexplicably to me, he used the Road Hole as an example of a narrow but strategic hole.  So here is my question:

What if the Road Hole actually played like a narrow hole:  Trees planted and thick US Open rough grown on the left, so that the hole was defined by the existing fairway, and maybe a narrow first cut, Anything further left would likely be a slash sideways or backwards to get back to the fairway.

Would the Road Hole still be one of the greatest Par 4's in the world?  

What, if any, strategic options would be left?

Would the revised TOC provide a better test for the Open Championship?

(Note:  I haven't played the Road Hole, so you can ignore this thread if you don't think it appropriate for me to ask this question.)

[Mike_Cirba]

David;

I was also surprised by Rich's inability to see strategy at the Road Hole, and his choice of that hole as an example to prove his point.

Frankly, the best drives successfully take a very aggressive line well right (flirting with OB...and the HOTEL) to have a shot in that is much more along the length of the green.  One doesn't have to then carry the road hole bunker, with the road lurking just behind.  The player who takes that line and gets away with it will only find the RH-bunker or the road with a big pull or push.

On the other hand, the more conservative drive out to the left faces that dangerous diagonal approach, needing to flirt with the RH-bunker, with potential disaster just behind the narrow target from that angle.

Perhaps Rich just doesn't have the power fade in his bag to attempt the aggressive play on 17?  

My lefty semi-duck-hook tee shot works really well there.  

[ForkaB]

Dave

They have already done this.  There is thick rough on the left and the wall on the right (no trees, yet.....), and the fairway is very narrow.  I spent 2 days overlooking the landing area for drives in February while staying in the Old course Hotel, and am quite confident that "width" is not one of the characteristics of that hole (for those who might argue that the 2nd hole fairway gives the 17th "width", please stop dreaming!).  I also remember Tiger (and others) having to battle their way out of the left hand rough in the 2000 Open.  For real hackers (like you and I) it would surely be a sidieways hack out job.

Mike

When caddies tell you that the "line" on a hole is the 2nd "O" (or whatever) on the "Old Course Hotel" sign, doesn't this tell you that the tee shot is very proscriptive--almost Fazian in nature, perhaps?

PS--of course I have the "power face" in my bag.  Unfortunately, it only comes out on those occasions where I am trying to hit the low running hook........

[Mike_Cirba]

Rich;

The caddies are largely trying to get the average player around unscathed and therefore suggest a more conservative line, don't you think?  

Actually, with my sweeping lefthanded "draw", I have to aim at the second fairway, and then confidently be assured that it will end up over the "L".  

[ForkaB]

Mike

How on earth did you end up on the far left side of the 18th at Merion?  Are you so good that you could turn on and then turn off your hook just to try to get as close to the Hogan plaque as possible?

[Mike_Cirba]

I blocked it.  

[DMoriarty]

Rich,

I haven't seen a replay of the 2000 in a while, but I recently watched a clip of the Open that Daly won (95?) and plenty of golfers were hitting it left on purpose then either laying it up or going for the green.  

But I will take your word for it.  Is it a better hole with rough where players just hack it out? Is it more or less strategic?  

Do people still hit it left on purpose?  If so, then how isn't this an example of width creating strategy?

[Darren_Kilfara]

Even with thick-ish rough down the left, the Road Hole has strategy: you can take the brave line down the right and risk a de facto two-shot penalty for out-of-bounds, or you can take a conservative line down the left and risk either a bad/longer line into the green (from the fairway) or a de facto one-shot penalty (for hacking out of the rough). I don't know what your definition of strategy is, but the choice between two options of varying degrees of risk/reward is what golfing strategy is all about, in my book. With rough, the penalty for erring left changes - it's less about angles and more about tall grass - but it's still distinct enough from the penalty for erring right (OB) that options are present. Strategy disappears only when a) angles of approach don't matter, or b) the penalty for missing right is virtually identical to the penalty for missing left. Neither of those conditions apply to the Road Hole - or any other hole at St. Andrews, really, when you get right down to it...

Cheers,
Darren

[ForkaB]

David

To be fair, there was not much growth when I last saw the hole in Feb., but the cut indicated to me that it would be narrow, adn I suspect that the rough will be thick when it does come in.  Perhaps others who have been ther more recently (Brian Phillips?) can chime in?

As for your question, yes, I do think that think is a good example of "maintenance unmeld."  It is a better hole without the rough, IMO.

[ForkaB]

Darren

By your definitions, I'm struggling to think of a "non-strategic" golf hole.

Rich

[Bob_Huntley]

If anyone thinks that the rough on the seventeenth is childs play, think again. The last medal round I played there balls were lost in the stuff.

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