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Carl Johnson

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Helene Golf Course Damage
« on: September 30, 2024, 09:10:32 AM »
Although a very minor aspect of the tragic consequences of Helene, golf courses have suffered.  Is this report on Augusta National accurate?  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/article-13902495/Augusta-National-Hurricane-Helene-golf-club-destroyed.html
I'm not sure the Mount Mitchell Golf Course in N.C., where I have a second home, will survive.  One observer says it will not, but it's all too early to know for certain.  Courses all over western N.C. have likely suffered extensive damage, although understandably first focus is on food, water, and getting power and communications back up.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2024, 01:37:11 PM »
My course in upstate SC has seven holes underwater and trees down everywhere. It will thrive again, but it will take a while.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2024, 02:36:04 PM »
That photo isn't of the golf course. I'm sure there are trees down everywhere at ANGC, but that's not really a concern for them. They'll just bring in more if they need/want to; it's not like money is an object.

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2024, 02:37:20 PM »
My course in upstate SC has seven holes underwater and trees down everywhere. It will thrive again, but it will take a while.


Musgrove Mill or elsewhere?

I've been wondering how bad it is at Musgrove; that course can flood in some places even from regular storms thanks to the river.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2024, 02:48:13 PM »
Cabot Farm?

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2024, 04:20:32 PM »
I don't think that a photo of Augusta
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 10:33:02 AM by cary lichtenstein »
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Craig Sweet

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2024, 05:12:03 PM »
A thunderstorm moved through Missoula, Montana last month and all the golf courses lost trees. At the Missoula Country Club about 170 trees came down. Irrigation lines were also ripped up. 


It saddens me how much destruction these storms are causing in the South.  And the loss of lives....so so horrible. 
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Chris Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2024, 11:11:51 PM »
A thunderstorm moved through Missoula, Montana last month and all the golf courses lost trees. At the Missoula Country Club about 170 trees came down. Irrigation lines were also ripped up. 


It saddens me how much destruction these storms are causing in the South.  And the loss of lives....so so horrible.
Who is it you are suggesting should be "locked up"...??
"Is it the Chicken Salad or the golf course that attracts and retains members ?"

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2024, 11:22:44 PM »
I don't think that a photo of Augusta

It's definitely not a photo of the golf course.


I think it is a photo of the surrounding area that they own, though.

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2024, 09:16:22 AM »
A thunderstorm moved through Missoula, Montana last month and all the golf courses lost trees. At the Missoula Country Club about 170 trees came down. Irrigation lines were also ripped up. 


It saddens me how much destruction these storms are causing in the South.  And the loss of lives....so so horrible.
It happens all over the place, not just the south.  In the summer of 2022 a windstorm took out 1100 trees at Ottawa Hunt just a few months before they were scheduled to host the Canadian Women's Open on the LPGA tour.

Tim_Weiman

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2024, 10:36:51 AM »
Nick Schreiber sent a second message to Old Barnwell members. Apparently the club has been somewhat fortunate. The damage is mostly downed trees and the club is expected to re-open shortly.


That aside, the homes of some employees have suffered damage. No fun for those impacted.
Tim Weiman

Daryl "Turboe" Boe

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2024, 11:19:27 AM »
My course in upstate SC has seven holes underwater and trees down everywhere. It will thrive again, but it will take a while.


Musgrove Mill or elsewhere?

I've been wondering how bad it is at Musgrove; that course can flood in some places even from regular storms thanks to the river.


Yes, that is Musgrove that Tommy was talking about.  I talked with the pro a little yesterday but have been trying to stay out of their hair.  The official position is that the course is closed for the week as they continue clean-up.  The clubhouse and cottages are without power still as of yesterday.  I am sure it is not good.
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"Time spent playing golf is not deducted from ones lifespan."

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John Foley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2024, 11:46:58 AM »
Its sickening looking at the devastation. I really hope the region gets all the help it needs and more to get back to what it was but that will be a long grind to get there.


Heard from a reliable friend that Wade Hampton was relatively unscathed but Diamond Creek suffered significant damage.
Integrity in the moment of choice


Kalen Braley

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2024, 03:43:20 PM »
A drone shot of Magnolia Lane.


P.S  Looking past the crows nest to the 10 and 18 corridors don't see many downed trees, even if several branches likely came off.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/hurricane-helene-leaves-augusta-national-s-magnolia-lane-devastated/vi-AA1rp4FL?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=f1bbd1d307e64fd8b9733be61a86418b&ei=16

John_Cullum

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2024, 06:04:18 PM »
Topics of this nature pop up often following these events. I find them quite revealing.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

SB

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2024, 08:29:19 AM »
Trees down is unpleasant, but entirely manageable.  My courses in Houston had nearly 1,000 trees down.  Much of that cleanup was covered by insurance.


The bigger issue is water.  Flooding can cover the course with water or silt, which can destroy turf unless you get it off in a few days.  But the real killer is fast moving water from flash flooding.  It can and did remove freeways, houses, and even entire towns.  Since many golf courses are built near creeks and rivers, I would venture a guess that entire holes or more were literally erased.  Many courses do have some limited insurance for that (it's sometimes called "tee and green insurance", but it has been harder to get and most have limits, often $1M.  $1M will not go very far, so any material damage will be a huge problem.

David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2024, 11:08:07 AM »
Here’s a link to a picture of the Harborside course at Longboat Key Resort in Sarasota. I’m friends with the director of Agronomy but haven’t reached out to him yet as Longboat is just devastated. In fact, some still are unable to get to their homes due to the catastrophic damage.


https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10231452149820496&set=a.10204644244919628

Craig Disher

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2024, 08:03:43 PM »
Old Barnwell reopened on Wednesday. Minimal course damage but the region still has large areas with no power. Palmetto GC and Aiken GC are closed with many trees down.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2024, 07:34:56 AM by Craig Disher »

David_Tepper

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2024, 08:53:53 PM »
Interesting article about how/why so much rain fell so far inland. Some areas well inland in North Carolina received 30 inches of rain. VERY unusual.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/09/were-only-beginning-to-understand-the-historic-nature-of-helenes-flooding/?utm_source=pocket-newtab-en-us
« Last Edit: October 03, 2024, 08:56:37 PM by David_Tepper »

Rob Marshall

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2024, 11:28:45 PM »
I wonder if there is any research going on trying to find a way to steer, break up, or wreaked these stroms. This has become an annual occurrence with the warmer waters. Hundreds of lives and billions of dollars every year. I’ve owned a place in the Marco area since 2016 and taken a direct hit from Irma and was lucky with Ian. I thought about selling my coach home to get a single family home and ultimately decided against it due to insurance considerations. I’m also fortunate in that I have a second home in case of a catastrophe. Most of the people affected don’t have that. They’ve lost everything. Think about that for a minute. Lost their homes and all their possessions. Just read about a couple in SC that was crushed in their bed when a tree fell on their house.


Augusta, Aiken, Palmetto, and the other golf course will recover and frankly should be the least of our worries. I know everyone here understands that. We need to do something, maybe it’s all ready to late.




If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Bernie Bell

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2024, 10:49:30 AM »
Trees down is unpleasant, but entirely manageable.  My courses in Houston had nearly 1,000 trees down.  Much of that cleanup was covered by insurance.


The bigger issue is water.  Flooding can cover the course with water or silt, which can destroy turf unless you get it off in a few days.  But the real killer is fast moving water from flash flooding.  It can and did remove freeways, houses, and even entire towns.  Since many golf courses are built near creeks and rivers, I would venture a guess that entire holes or more were literally erased.  Many courses do have some limited insurance for that (it's sometimes called "tee and green insurance", but it has been harder to get and most have limits, often $1M.  $1M will not go very far, so any material damage will be a huge problem.
Much broader coverage than that is available, although I don't know the current cost. (I don't sell it.)  Golf course policies can cover all golf course property including the clubhouse, bridges, roads, cart paths, irrigation systems, and lightning detection/warning systems.  Also usually covers the course itself ("tees and greens") including repair of tees, greens, fairways, rough, and bunkers.  Trees and other landscaping can be covered.  Debris removal as well.  Importantly for public courses, coverage is available for business interruption loss.


 

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2024, 02:02:57 PM »
I wonder if there is any research going on trying to find a way to steer, break up, or wreaked these storms.

The best way to reduce the impact of these storms is to reduce amount of excess greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere (primarily Carbon Dioxide and Methane). Sensible climate advocates have been making the economic argument for reducing these emissions since the early 1990s, and we are now seeing the negative costs begin to be borne. Changing infrastructure is expensive, and when your house on a 500 year floodplain is now on a 50 or 10 year floodplain, well, that is just not something that can be fixed, it's just a sunk cost. The real kicker of climate change is that it's not all-or-nothing. We will not go back to the 90s climate in our lifetimes, but if we continue to do nothing, it will get worse and worse.

To weaken a hurricane, you need to cool oceans' surface temperatures, which is effectively impossible. There is a theoretical way to do this, but it's not practical. When I was in college, in our natural disasters earth science class, there was discussion of creating an array of inner-tubes with skirts. These create little cylinders in the ocean.These cylinders would go down to cooler water below the surface, and when the waves splash over the tube, it pushes water in the tube down, which forces the cooler water up. This should theoretically cool the surface, and would dramatically weaken hurricanes. It seems like a reasonable idea until you consider the scale of the problem. We aren't talking about an array of inner-tubes outside of a city, or even the size of a city. We would need two arrays of inner-tubes, one sitting in the Gulf of Mexico and another in the Caribbean sea, and both would need to be about the size of Texas. It's just an absurdity. Beyond that, we have no idea what the ecological effects of stirring the ocean to cool it would have on the massive amounts of wildlife that inhabit these those areas.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2024, 02:51:27 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
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Bernie Bell

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2024, 02:38:02 PM »
Ah, but where to start?  Jet-fuel dependent golf destinations?   

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Helene Golf Course Damage
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2024, 02:49:58 PM »
Ah, but where to start?  Jet-fuel dependent golf destinations?
The prescriptions for getting to net-negative ghg emissions have been widely discussed. It's a political problem, not a technological one. Something as simple as a carbon/methane tax could realign market incentives without much actual policy change.
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