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Tommy_Naccarato

Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« on: April 15, 2003, 07:46:51 AM »
Want to congratulate everyone on the entry's to the design contest. They all were very good routings, with the Blue Ribbon Prize being awarded to the routing that best emphasized the site. You guys had some pretty stiff competition too! Both with-in yourselves and another Architect known as C.B. MacDonald!



The site used for this contest is actually that of the former and much famed 1921 Estate course for T. Sufferin Tailor, which is not only featured in George Bahto's "The Evangilist of Golf" but also Daniel Wexler's Lost Links. The difference was, you were allowed to route the course to more of the lots, move houses, or in this case--estates! Tailer owned four lots which as you will see in the drawing was quite a chore in routing. In MacDonald fashion he created:

#1-320 Yards-The Fifth at Garden City
#2-545 Yards-Long Hole:Shore Acres:Lake Bluff
#3-191 Yards-To the Harbor, North Berwick, Redan
#4-305 Yards-Ocean Reef, 1st National
#5-315 Yards-Ocean Drive Cape Hole, Lido
#6-140 Yards-Ocean: 6th National, 17th Piping Rock
#7-258 Yards-Hill to Carry, Then 11th at St. Andrews
#8-510 Yards-Road Hole: St. Andrews, 8th Piping Rock
#9-460 Yards-Raynor's Prize Dog Leg

The course featured a much heralded invitational tournament called the Golden Mashie, where some of the biggest names in the game competed for an actual gold-plated Mashie iron valued at $5,000!

The club had one member--Tailer himself, but any of the members of Newport Country Club were allowed to play the course whenever they wanted.

Now on to the winners!

The Blue Ribbon winner was Jim Thompson. Congrats Jim, you are the winner of a signed copy of "The Evangelist of Golf." Please email me where you would like to have the book sent.


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2003, 07:52:13 AM »
Very cool effort by Jim Thompson, who obviously must be related to the great Stanley.

And Tommy, any prize for NOT cheating and submitting a direct copy of CB Mac's plan?... Last week I recognized this as the Tailor estate right away, as I'm sure many others did, from the great books you mention.  ;)

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2003, 07:56:31 AM »
T,
An exact duplicate would have been questioned, but something inspired form the original would have been more then welcomed!

BTW, Thanks to all who knew and for not saying anything!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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THuckaby2

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2003, 08:00:10 AM »
I was debating how close I could make it and still slip it past you.  I want George to autograph my copy of the book!   ;D

Seriously though, knowing that this already existed and was routed by one of the all-time gods of architecture just made it kinda overwhelming.  Hell, I don't know how to use the software necessary to do this, and I also very DEFINITELY know my limitations, so it's not like I was gonna submit something anyway... but comparing to CBMac just made it that much more frightening!

Kudos to those who did send in entries... I admire anyone who can actually do this.

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Steve_L.

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2003, 08:13:29 AM »
Do we get a peek at all entries...???

Good show Jim Thompson..!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2003, 08:53:43 AM »
Boy, Tommy and I had a lot of trouble selection JUST ONE of the many great renditions sent in.

I thank everyone who participated and congratulations to the winner Jim Thompson.

We've got a lot of talented people here in "our" group!

Tommy, this was an excellent idea - thanks to you as well.

There were a series of about 13 paintings done of the Mr. Tailer's Ocean Links course and I'll see if
Tommy will post some of them on this site. They appeared in the old Golf Illustrated and American Golfer
magazines in the 1920's. I've only ever uncovered one of them and would love to know if there are others
around. Four of them are in my book - one a signed version from Mr. Tailer to CBM - interesting.

Again thanks to all.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2003, 08:56:06 AM »
BTW - Tommy gave you a bit more room than was given to Seth Raynor by Tailer.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2003, 09:32:04 AM »
Jim Thompson,
Congratulations !!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2003, 09:35:46 AM »
I'll try to get to posting the pictures of the pictures as wellas everyone's entry's later today, maybe tonight.

Special thanks for all of this goes to Jeremy Glenn, who really started all of this some time ago on Traditionalgolf.com.

Also to the Mad Armenian who helped with a lot of information some weeks ago.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2003, 09:45:26 AM »
Congrats Jim and Tommy I hope you and George will do this again soon. Masters Week fill all my golf thoughts for those most wonderful days.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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GeoffreyC

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2003, 09:56:57 AM »
A heck of a nice effort Jim Thompson.

I like your boomerang and reverse boomerang greens but I'm curious about the placement of the bunkers on the boomerang shaped green.  Why not a single bunker in the front center as is traditional?  Would there be a hollow in the front as drawn?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2003, 12:44:07 PM »
Nice job Jim.  I for one treated this like I used to treat term papers in my youth.  I got busy on it a couple of hours after it was due! ::) :P  I was so sloppy with it, I didn't site a maintenance facility, nor irrigation source. ???

As to the width question on another thread, I did in deed go wide as you did with alternate possible routes depeding on what I assumed would be a windy site of sandy firm and fast coastal sandy dune like conditions.  I was thinking of something like Pacific Grove.  I can't wait to see others ideas as well.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Jamie_Duffner

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2003, 12:50:30 PM »
Tommy can feel free to post mine, but mine looks like my five year old took crayons to it.  I'm just not technologically inclined like many on this site.  I opened it in paintbrush and was like a kid with crayons and a kick ass new coloring book!  Same problems too, I couldn't stay within the lines.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jamie_Duffner

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2003, 12:55:30 PM »
What's interesting about CB's routing is that he gets a rather long hole in the small parcel of land and he doesn't use the lower left portion of the property, which I would think would provide some interesting winds and terrain.  I really like Jim's use of that lower left portion.  I know I'd like to play that nine holes!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2003, 12:59:27 PM »
Jaime, You described mine to a tee.  I got a new computer with windows XP and couldn't even find the paint program at first. :-/   My wife teaches second grade and she undoubtedly has kids in her class that could color, puter-paint better than I.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2003, 04:35:10 PM »
Jamie, I'll have you know that you finsihed a VERY close second. This will show you how much art work was considered!

Shooter finished tied for third, and he had also never operated MS Paint before, and didn't even know that he could use fonts also! He simply tried to steadly draw the numbers in, and anyone who has doodled with MS Paint, knows how much of a task it is!

O.K., you asked for it! Here are all of the drawings! (In no paticular order.)

Todd Housteau

Jamie Duffner

Shooter

Steven Biehl

Ian Andrew

Robert Nybladt

Jim Kennedy

Mike Nuzzo

Michael Dugger

Chris Clouser

Jeremy Glenn

Derek Lash

Dick Daley
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2003, 04:50:21 PM »
BTW, There is no truth to the rumor that Dick Daley built a Nuclear Power Plant for 3 phase power, nor is the site near an active weapons-grade Plutonium mine.:)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2003, 06:02:20 PM »
I am quite amazed that Mike Dugger and I have 6 of 9 holes for the most part identical.  They are in slightly different sequence, but not by much.  He has a reverse redan on his #4 where mine is traditional on my #2, and the come back hole on the back 40 is the same basic principle flirting with a right side hazard on a line of charm or a safer but fall away wider FW up right.  His 3 is my 1.  His 6 my 4 but par is 4 for him 5 for me, his 5 my 7.  But most interesting for me is our thoughts on the finish hole with what I felt would be a waste area of alps of mounds laced with bunkering and his a waste-sand area to split the fairway with a forced carry up the hill to the green and room to play short for the second shot.  We both left a narrow chance for a bounding ball to run up to green, but I put the traditional backstop bunker to the rear.  

I must say Jaime Duffner and I saw it almost as similar of a routing as with Mike.

For the record, I would place my maintenance sheds in the corner next to my #1 with the drive in up the property line along the left of #1, and bring the water on from that same high corner of the property. ::)  

Now, we will have to get Dr Katz in here to tell us what this all means ;D ;D ;D :-/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2003, 07:09:47 PM »
THESE guys are good :o  My submission met a technical demise and was a NDE (never did exist).

Rank amateur,

Mike
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

ian

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2003, 08:04:00 PM »
Congratulations Mr. Thompson!

Thank-you for the contest Tommy, it was a lot of fun to look at all the alternatives. I think that Mr. McDonald guy also shows some real promise ;D

Thanks for a wonderful prize George, that was very generous.

I like what you started Jeremy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Steven_Biehl

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2003, 08:47:58 PM »
Congrats Mr. Thompson!  Great Design!  

Mr. Daley
I do see the similarities between yours and Mike's.  My idea for the routing has some company as well.  It appears Todd submitted a design that can be played in reverse also.  They are all interesting routings.  I hope some healthy discussion can come of all this.

Mr. Naccarato and Mr. Bahto.  A big thanks goes to both of you!  This was a lot of fun and hope we can do more of this in the future.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"He who creates a cricket ground is at best a good craftsman but the creator of a great hole is an artist.  We golfers can talk, and sometimes do talk considerable nonsense too, about our favourite holes for hours together." - Bernard Darwin, Golf

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2003, 09:38:35 AM »
Has anyone else noticed that Mike Nuzzo pulled a "reverse Dr. Mac" and offered up a TEN? hole design?  

RJDaley

I also noticed that Jeremy Glenn's entrance is very similar to ours as well.  That was really fun, wasn't it?  I was very tempted to make #9 some version of the Lido hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2003, 09:59:15 AM »
That Nuzzo is a character.  I had to look for a while to figure out his route, then didn't realize it was 10 holes until you spilled the beans. ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2003, 10:45:03 AM »
I also liked Mike's routing because you could start it from anywhere. He had no pre-defined point, which was healthy! Sort of like a course in Oregon that I have heard of, but doesn't really exist.:)

I still have yet to hear from Jim Thompson. Jim, if you are out there, your book awaits you!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Results of the 9 Hole Routing Contest
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2003, 11:43:32 AM »
Indeed, Jeremy and Micheal are twins separated at birth.

Does anyone have an idea of how we can do this again in a couple of weeks, or do you even want to?  How would we go about selecting interesting aerials with topos?  Should we have Tommy be the presenter, or have a rotating guest presenter?  The trouble is that the elevation detail on most every "Terraserver" or "Mapquest" topo is on 10feet and not enough detail to do some really creative thinking and visualizing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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