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Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
These clubs are an example of the income inequality that is quickly bringing the demise of America.


I would argue any potential demise is based around phrases like "income inequality" .. combined with any societal goal of "income equality."




cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
These clubs are an example of the income inequality that is quickly bringing the demise of America.


I guess anyone driving a $100,000 car is in the same category
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
These clubs are an example of the income inequality that is quickly bringing the demise of America.


I guess anyone driving a $100,000 car is in the same category


Billionaire Tom Golisano went to high school with my father. He has a mega yacht that cost millions. He's also paid for Children's hospitals in New York and Florida. Wonder if he is helping the demise of America................



If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Chris Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
My club, located in one of the richest parts of the world, has so far resisted charging what the market will pay for a number of reasons,  not least that we want good people/players who fit our culture and because we want to avoid the boom/ bust cycle that creates the high member turnover that can ruin our golf focused culture.


By chance might this club be located two-stops from the end of the Hempstead Branch?  8) [size=78%] [/size]

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nothing wrong with a private club charging extreme fees if that's what the market will pay. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with a person preferring the model that is most prevalent in Ireland and Scotland, where most of the best courses are open to public play.
Unfortunately, in preferring the Scottish/Irish model (count me in), we'd have to change our tax code in America to even allow it. To change the 501c7 structure to allow for visitors in addition to guests, we would need a strong cultural/political shift in American golf. Stories like this make me a bit depressed that we're going in the opposite direction. We need more Mike Keisers and fewer DJ Kalids (apparently) if we want to change the way golf clubs operate in America.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 02:50:34 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Michael Morandi

  • Karma: +0/-0
My club, located in one of the richest parts of the world, has so far resisted charging what the market will pay for a number of reasons,  not least that we want good people/players who fit our culture and because we want to avoid the boom/ bust cycle that creates the high member turnover that can ruin our golf focused culture.


By chance might this club be located two-stops from the end of the Hempstead Branch?  8)


Not even close

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Nothing wrong with a private club charging extreme fees if that's what the market will pay. Similarly, there's nothing wrong with a person preferring the model that is most prevalent in Ireland and Scotland, where most of the best courses are open to public play.
Unfortunately, in preferring the Scottish/Irish model (count me in), we'd have to change our tax code in America to even allow it. To change the 501c7 structure to allow for visitors in addition to guests, we would need a strong cultural/political shift in American golf. Stories like this make me a bit depressed that we're going in the opposite direction. We need more Mike Keisers and fewer DJ Kalids (apparently) if we want to change the way golf clubs operate in America.


Keisers courses are cheap to play?
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Keisers courses are cheap to play?
Keiser's courses, even the private ones, are available to play to the public (if they are "respectful"), which is exactly the same model that Scottish/Irish private clubs use. I don't think most of us who are complaining about American private club culture are complaining about the cost. I know that when I complain American private clubs, I am complaining about the institutionalized segregation and the access economy that creates.

The main difference between Keiser's Dunes Club and a Scottish Club, is that Keiser is only allowed to imply that you can to play if you ask. If they were to advertise that, they would lose their not-for-profit status.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2024, 05:39:11 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
My club, located in one of the richest parts of the world, has so far resisted charging what the market will pay for a number of reasons,  not least that we want good people/players who fit our culture and because we want to avoid the boom/ bust cycle that creates the high member turnover that can ruin our golf focused culture.


By chance might this club be located two-stops from the end of the Hempstead Branch?  8)


Not even close


He got within 3000 miles though.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Obviously there are some that post here that are blind to a system that is rigged to favor the wealthy. It's like that old saying "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple."   There are lots of wealthy people that donate to hospitals and universities and they all operate in a system that benefits them and their money. 


If hollowing out the middle class resulting in a USA consisting of the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor then hold on because we are quickly getting there.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Obviously there are some that post here that are blind to a system that is rigged to favor the wealthy. It's like that old saying "he was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple."   There are lots of wealthy people that donate to hospitals and universities and they all operate in a system that benefits them and their money. 


If hollowing out the middle class resulting in a USA consisting of the ultra wealthy and the ultra poor then hold on because we are quickly getting there.


There are a lot of people who were born with nothing, Had a dream, worked their ass off, and made it happen.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rob...


There were a lot of people that worked their ass off and never got rich. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the "system" doesn't benefit those with money.  One medical issue can bankrupt a working family while the "system" allows a guy like Trump to bankrupt business after business and still remain wealthy
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Rob...


There were a lot of people that worked their ass off and never got rich. I think it's pretty hard to argue that the "system" doesn't benefit those with money.  One medical issue can bankrupt a working family while the "system" allows a guy like Trump to bankrupt business after business and still remain wealthy


Of course money benefits people. Life is not fair. There is no fair. Until you can provide a system that provides upward mobility like capitalism, we should be grateful for the "system" instead of vilifying. There's more to benefits in life other than money as well ... I know plenty of miserable "rich" people ... and plenty of happy people who have less than them.






Jeff Evagues

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?
Be the ball

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


+1

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


Jeff,


I am surprised Ran hasn’t deleted this thread.


Tim
Tim Weiman

Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


+1
I'll take a stab at tying it back to GCA.  The value of the land where existing courses sit increases to the point where golf is not its most profitable use, or in the case of some jurisdictions, its most desirable.  And one can't afford to build practical "middle class" courses from scratch, as has been covered here in recent threads.  So most of the new architecture seems geared to the wealthy, either in ultra-elite private clubs referred to in the thread title (status > golf) or in destination resorts that consume the golf budget that used to go toward practical local clubs.  (OT, there are plenty of capitalists and the odd billionaire like Paul Tudor Jones who are plenty concerned about widening inequality, it's not just Commies and socialists.)

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


+1
I'll take a stab at tying it back to GCA.  The value of the land where existing courses sit increases to the point where golf is not its most profitable use, or in the case of some jurisdictions, its most desirable.  And one can't afford to build practical "middle class" courses from scratch, as has been covered here in recent threads.  So most of the new architecture seems geared to the wealthy, either in ultra-elite private clubs referred to in the thread title (status > golf) or in destination resorts that consume the golf budget that used to go toward practical local clubs.  (OT, there are plenty of capitalists and the odd billionaire like Paul Tudor Jones who are plenty concerned about widening inequality, it's not just Commies and socialists.)


Bernie,


Another way to tie back to golf architecture is to ask: where is golf not affordable?


I think I’ll create a new thread on that.


Tim
Tim Weiman

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


+1


+2 - Craig, GCA is not the time or place for political views - yours or mine or anyone else's

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
What does any of this have to do about golf course architecture?


+1


+2 - Craig, GCA is not the time or place for political views - yours or mine or anyone else's


Keith,


I thought that was understood, but will say it is interesting that in the “Where is golf not affordable?” thread I started San Francisco is the only location in the United States anyone has identified.


That doesn’t suggest affordability is a major problem.


Tim
Tim Weiman

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