News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Joe Wandro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« on: April 09, 2024, 02:45:02 PM »
Culture has always influenced the direction of GCA. From the flowering of art and science in the roaring 20s to the GCA dark ages following WW2. The later was fueled by an explosion in golfís popularity and expedited methods of construction. This has been discussed thoroughly in these threads. (There are other important factors such as generational turnover in architects that iím not discussing here) 

Today, cultural forces dictate a more authentic, bespoke style of architecture that is more tied to place. It is also historicist in nature, looking to the past for inspiration.

What are the emerging cultural forces that will dominate the next 25 years of GCA?

It seems that social media marketing and influencer culture will drive the direction to some degree.

Cheers,
Joe
« Last Edit: April 09, 2024, 05:07:49 PM by Joe Wandro »

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces in GCA
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2024, 04:42:13 PM »
Joe,
Are you asking about the actual playing area-the course?
If so, see ball, hit ball.



As for "cultural forces," I hope US courses adopt an inviting and township attitude towards their neighbors.
Jogging or walking your dog round the perimeter before/after playing hours should not be trespassing.

Too many courses (public,muni) have failed to embrace their non-golfing locals.


Joe Wandro

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces in GCA
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2024, 05:04:22 PM »
Yes, the actual golf architecture. For instance: bunkers, green undulations, or other features built to show better on a drone video. The cultural change would be a digitally connected population that consumes GCA through a phone.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2024, 06:38:36 PM »
I am skeptical that people are designing golf courses to look better from a drone -- I do believe drones do a better job of highlighting some interesting features than a guy standing on a ladder.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2024, 07:13:33 PM »
Culturally.....More public access to quality courses. More diversity on the "playing field". 
LOCK HIM UP!!!

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2024, 09:48:23 PM »
I am skeptical that people are designing golf courses to look better from a drone -- I do believe drones do a better job of highlighting some interesting features than a guy standing on a ladder.
Buck,
I canít speak for Brian Schneider and Blake Conant but when it comes to Old Barnwell IMO it looks better from the ground than drone film.
Iíd say the same for a famous hole like #8 at Pebble Beach.


Tim
Tim Weiman

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2024, 11:01:35 PM »
Culturally.....More public access to quality courses.
This is probably one of the biggest changes in the last 25 years that began with Bandon Dunes.  At least in North America.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2024, 11:59:38 PM »
The biggest one I've seen in the last decade is a return to brown being perfectly acceptable.

The virtues of fescue on sand I think is settled with my generation. Plus, folks like the Fried Egg are showcasing courses like Aiken and Rustic Canyon, not in spite of them using being dormant Bermuda, but exactly because they leave their courses dormant.

We can talk about instagram this and that, but courses are being celebrated for their playability in a rustic setting versus verdant opulence.
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Pierre Cruikshank

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2024, 12:51:08 AM »
Culturally, the industry of GCA will become more diverse. More individuals from underrepresented groups will be entering the industry.

We will likely see more public destination golf like Bandon, Cabot, Pinehurst, Streamsong, etc.. I think they will grow in size, adding more courses and/or locations. The Mission Hills model, but on a smaller scale (https://missionhillschina.com/en/sports/golf-courses/shenzhen/world_cup_course )

Unlikely in next 25 years, but I would like to see a golf course on Mars.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2024, 01:35:56 AM by Pierre Cruikshank »
"Photons have mass? I didnít even know they were Catholic.Ē
― Woody Allen

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2024, 04:08:11 AM »
Suspect the primary influences will be essentially non-golf related, namely water and land usage on a planet with an ever increasing population thats getting warmer.
atb

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2024, 08:26:22 AM »
I am skeptical of attempts to assign design trends [especially current ones] to cultural trends.  Golf architecture is a small business and it only takes one successful project to change the trend . . . and the cultural influences on that one particular designer may not be representative of society as a whole, but only of his own individual experience.


[For example, why did I become a minimalist?  Part of it was a reaction to what I saw as excessive earthmoving on the big projects of the 1980s, but part of it was having parents who grew up during the Depression . . . which I shared not with my own generation, but with the generation 10-20 years older than me, which, I guess, included Bill Coore.]




If I had to pick one thing that's influencing the direction today, I would say that the explosion of interest in golf course architecture due to podcasts, blogs, Golf Club Atlas, etc., has produced a lot of newbies who are interested in the study of golf course architecture.  And since their learning curve starts with the template holes, that has led to a lot of young designers doing their own versions of the template holes [and also to the renaissance of Seth Raynor courses].


The other visual "trend" in the business is the proliferation of sand at the margins of the course.  I'd love to hear a cultural reason for that.  I don't have one.

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2024, 09:27:30 AM »
If I had to pick one thing that's influencing the direction today, I would say that the explosion of interest in golf course architecture due to podcasts, blogs, Golf Club Atlas, etc.




This is the cultural force being used to influence GCA today, internet culture. And I'd throw social media apps into that bucket as well.


God I hope AI never gets any purchase. Has anyone tried having ChatGPT write a mission statement for a fictional golf architect yet?
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2024, 10:23:49 AM »
The other visual "trend" in the business is the proliferation of sand at the margins of the course.  I'd love to hear a cultural reason for that.  I don't have one.
Is it a matter of golf course operators wanting to reduce the amount of water a course needs in order to be maintained well? Is that something your clients express? It seems like in certain areas, anyway, that's on people's mind.


If that is indeed a trend, it's probably both practical (save $) and cultural ("sustainability"), right?
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Joe Zucker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2024, 11:33:44 AM »
My prediction is something with data/AI. We already saw the Lido resurrected with the use of computers and technology.  How long before we have the first AI generated "MacKenzie" course?  You can feed it data on all courses he built (topo maps with routing, pictures, writings, etc.) and then see what it would design on a new piece of land. I don't really know if this would be "good" or interesting, but I assume it could be attempted.


I also think including data into every day golf will continue to proliferate.  There are already guides like Arcoss caddy, which helps you with course decisions based on your historical shot data. 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2024, 01:21:30 PM »

Is it a matter of golf course operators wanting to reduce the amount of water a course needs in order to be maintained well? Is that something your clients express?



Personally, I've only had two clients who expressed an interest in reducing water consumption, because they had a very limited supply:  Stonewall and St. Emilion.  Otherwise, no, including in places where you'd think it should be a priority [Australia, Palm Springs, etc.]. 


Our client in AZ, the San Carlos Apache Tribe, actually encouraged us to make the course bigger and wider, because the town had been drilling for water illegally under the reservation.  :D


You'd think that with the cost of irrigation systems now, new courses would be more focused on water, but BIGGER and WIDER courses are the ones winning the awards they're chasing.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2024, 08:50:30 PM »
Viewing these recent threads of astronomical join fees, much less $$$$ to pop in for a one day visit, it would seem golf is returning to its roots in more ways than one... a game for the well-off to deep pockets golfer.

While there are more high end publicly accessible resorts, lets be honest, given the cost to travel, stay, and play the average working joe ain't accessing them much and prices only seem to be going up.

Yes the masses still have their local courses, but I don't see many driving forces at those types of venues, even if we do thankfully see the occasional Memorial Park.

Don Mahaffey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2024, 06:27:22 AM »
Culturally, the industry of GCA will become more diverse. More individuals from underrepresented groups will be entering the industry.



I don't know about this. It certainly should be happening as most of the labor force building golf courses is from "underrepresented groups" and many have significant experience performing great work, but it is very hard for experienced and talented shapers from this group to break through and be accepted as "artists".

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2024, 08:27:33 AM »
Culture is always evolving.  For instance, today I would be identified by many as a grumpy old white dude, the most dangerous creature on the planet. The GOWD generation of golf made and spent money in a different way than the generation of golfers today.  The most obvious thing I see is that many of our kids want nothing to do with a country club or private golf club.  The increased initiation fees in many cases have made it where the mobile lifestyle of today deems it not feasible.  You don't see many examples of private clubs being built as 501c7 and that's great.  The owners of the top clubs today seem to put their own money out there and then decide how they will attract members if they even want them. The municipalities often see the opportunity to use the golf as an economic engine for communities and so we have a generation of golfers who would prefer public golf as their base golf with destination golf a few times a years.   

And so I consider the above to be the main cultural force driving what type of golf is being built.  From dress codes to fire pits instead of million dollar bars it is changing. It's a good change overall.  Most of the good stuff has one guy telling an archie what he wants not 9 spankers on a board trying to leave their mark.  A downturn here and there will probably do away with some of the bunker style we see now, some of the width we water may get adjusted but , as mentioned in another thread, this generation doesn't mind brown.  It's all good.
The danger I see is that the guys who can write a check for the projects we hear of today can usually afford to lose that money.  If they grow tired of the sandbox, who takes it?  The next dude may not wish to subsidize for years.  Be thankful for the guys spending the money for many of these places. 

"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Enno Gerdes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2024, 08:36:19 AM »
Interesting to think about this. There's quite a few societal / cultural trends that may have an impact on GCA. "May" is doing a lot of work here. Possible causes and effects:


1) more focus on diversity of golfers - courses need to be built to be playable for various groups.
2) aging populations, and better health of old people - people will golf into higher age, courses need to be playable for ever older people; more focus on ground game.
3) more focus on diversity of architects - courses will reflect different backgrounds, preferences and experiences of architects.
4) more focus on sustainability during construction - more / better use of existing / natural features.
5) more focus on sustainable maintenance - less use of "imported" grass types, etc.; possibly more use of areas that don't need to be maintained (see Tom's point about use of sand at the margins of courses?)
6) more possibilities due to data / ai - easier to construct courses true to "the way they once were" (see Lido)
7) more individualism in society - pay-to-play as standard model, courses must handle xx-thousand rounds per year; needs more pinnable positions on greens, more distance green-to-tee (for safety reasons), etc.


That's just a few hypotheses, the list can probably be much longer. And it's all guesswork of course.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2024, 08:44:07 AM »
Culturally, the industry of GCA will become more diverse. More individuals from underrepresented groups will be entering the industry.



I don't know about this. It certainly should be happening as most of the labor force building golf courses is from "underrepresented groups" and many have significant experience performing great work, but it is very hard for experienced and talented shapers from this group to break through and be accepted as "artists".
Don,


Work started on the construction of Sand Ridge Gol Club (Fazio, Chardon, OH) in 1995, almost 30 years ago. I spent quite a bit of time on site during construction. Tom Marzolf was the lead guy for Fazio and John Zimmers, who went on to Oakmont and now Inverness, was the superintendent. Both were on site a fair amount.


As for the work crew, if I remember correctly it was almost entirely Hispanics, except perhaps one or two managers from Landscapes Unlimited.


To my knowledge, none have become designers, architects, etc.


Tim
Tim Weiman

JC Urbina

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2024, 03:31:43 PM »
A Cultural Force that influenced recent GCA was a man by the name of Dick Youngscap.  If it wasn't for his thoughts on Golf Course Designs and what he knew about " THE LAND"  and its importance, we wouldn't be chasing around the world looking for the next best land.  His contribution is overlooked!


Samuel B Morse
Fredrick Law Olmsted
James Walker Tuffts




Cultural Forces of their time.





Bernie Bell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2024, 11:44:17 AM »
In the US, growing wealth inequality and the hollowing out of the middle class

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cultural Forces influencing GCA
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2024, 07:21:33 AM »
Culturally, the industry of GCA will become more diverse. More individuals from underrepresented groups will be entering the industry.



I don't know about this. It certainly should be happening as most of the labor force building golf courses is from "underrepresented groups" and many have significant experience performing great work, but it is very hard for experienced and talented shapers from this group to break through and be accepted as "artists".


Precious few tend to admit that some hourly guy (or girl!) on a sand pro can have just as much influence over what the golfer feels on a golf course as a shaper on a bulldozer.

I wonder how much of it is because the writers don't actually like to get dirty (they all want to build bunkers) and how much of it is when they don't listen to the architect when they say it (oh, they're just being humble!).
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

Thank you for changing the font of your posts. It makes them easier to scroll past.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back