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Tim Liddy

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MacKenzie and Water
« on: April 08, 2024, 08:47:27 PM »
I profer MacKenzie's best golf holes used water as a hazard including Augusta National 11,12, 15 original 16 and especially 13. Cypress Point 15,16,and 17 are also wonderful examples.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2024, 09:24:19 PM »
.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 09:50:11 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Kevin Pallier

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2024, 10:26:14 PM »
Tim


I'm not too sure about that. There aren't any water hazards on RMW and I'd say some are arguably up there with the best holes on the planet.


For starters 3-6, 10 & 16.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2024, 10:27:49 PM by Kevin Pallier »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2024, 05:25:05 AM »
Some did, some didn't.


The bottom line is that he used what he had.  On the Pacific coast, you'd be crazy not to place holes right on the cliffs.  At Pasatiempo, you'd of course use the ravines.  At Augusta, you'd use Rae's Creek.  But at Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath and Crystal Downs and Cavendish, he built some really dramatic holes with no water in sight.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2024, 06:05:03 AM »
At Pitreavie, Iíve just counted off the top of my head something like 10 crossings of the small watercourses. Sometimes in front of tees, sometimes Green fronting, sometimes on approach shots, sometimes crossing square across them, sometimes on an angle.
A pretty wide variety of uses. It strikes me though that most, if not all, should be considered as penal as thereís no choice of play, other than going over them. Iíd never really thought of that before.
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2024, 06:47:43 AM »
Would the water channels he created for both drainage and as spoil to create features at the Jockey Club be another if rather different example of his use of water?
Atb

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2024, 11:36:15 AM »
Tim,


I prefer Tilly's take on water.......never drink it in an undiluted state! ;)
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2024, 01:01:26 PM »
Doesnít it just come down to architects who use natural water features in a variety of ways.


Vs


Architects who thrive on creating multiple artificial water features.


Iíll proffer that any architect who says they are actively against using water as a hazard is lying, if that water forms part of the raw site.

Brett Hochstein

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2024, 11:02:27 AM »
I've been trying to ask myself the question of--did MacKenzie ever use created water in his designs, i.e. a man made pond.  I came up with a couple examples of ponds--Meadow Club and University of Michigan--but those were both definitively added later.


I can't even think of courses with natural ponds, unless you count the damming of creeks at Augusta, some (or all, I don't know exactly) of which happened later on.  Maybe over in England? What about original Ohio State? Granted, a big part of that is the regional geology of where he most worked; California and Australia don't have ponds.
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

Adam Lawrence

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Re: MacKenzie and Water
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2024, 01:09:01 PM »
Tim,

I prefer Tilly's take on water.......never drink it in an undiluted state! ;)


I prefer W. C. Fields': 'Don't drink water. Fish f*** in it.'
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

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