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David_Tepper

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A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« on: February 23, 2024, 12:59:12 PM »
Article from the British & International Golf Greenkeepers Assoc:

https://www.bigga.org.uk/news-listing/golf-course-closed-rainfall.html



Richard Fisher

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2024, 06:49:42 AM »
Yes. This is self-evidently a (very) worrying trend, not least (to strike a very parochial note) for the finances of many UK clubs whose operational model is almost always a 12-month one, certainly in terms of clubhouse usage. Attached here are some dramatic pix from Harlech last week - parts of which were (literally) under water...
https://royalstdavids.intelligentgolf.co.uk/uploads/royalstdavids/File/emails/course_conditions_-_22.02.2024.pdf

David_Tepper

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2024, 11:17:53 AM »
Better link to the photos:

https://royalstdavids.intelligentgolf.co.uk/uploads/royalstdavids/File/emails/course_conditions_-_22.02.2024.pdf

Looks like the course will not be playable for several months.

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2024, 11:55:59 AM »
That's worrying.


I have two days booked at RSD on the 26th and 27th March.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Richard Fisher

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2024, 12:27:55 PM »
An awful lot depends on the weather over the next fortnight. In theory 'the season' begins at Harlech around St David's Day, and a couple of major club competitions. But those are clearly under threat. Mind you, in previous winters the club was once flooded for six weeks straight, so this is not wholly unprecedented...

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2024, 02:09:53 PM »
Do British courses have drainage pipes and tile systems, as is typical in North America?  Or has that not been historically required due to good natural drainage that is now being overwhelmed by heavier rain.  The article isn't very clear on that.
At my club we have spent a fair bit of money on improving drainage over the last decade.

Simon Barrington

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2024, 05:35:48 PM »
Do British courses have drainage pipes and tile systems, as is typical in North America?  Or has that not been historically required due to good natural drainage that is now being overwhelmed by heavier rain.  The article isn't very clear on that.
At my club we have spent a fair bit of money on improving drainage over the last decade.
For context, we are having by far the wettest extended period of rain for many many years.

My Home Club, Henley GC (Oxon) the Course Manager shared the following data with members:-

"Since HGC measurement records started (in 2007) the average annual rainfall has been 613mm (c.24 ins), the low in 2011 was 404mm (c.16 ins) and the high in 2023 was 950mm (c. 37.5ins) and 55% above average for the year."

And after a dryer January than normal, February has been terrible resulting in the last 3-months National rainfall being 39% above average! The water tables are really high and saturated ground is everywhere.

All clubs could do with more drainage, most do have systems as you describe (and more in some cases) but these numbers are truly unprecedented.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2024, 05:44:13 PM by Simon Barrington »

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2024, 03:08:02 AM »
Recent research has shown that Ireland has become warmer and wetter over the last 30 years.

From the Irish Examiner:

"The analysis also shows an increase in rainfall of about 7% over the past 30 years, with annual average rainfall at 1,288mm. The west and north of Ireland had the greatest increases in annual rainfall in this period."

We also seem to be seeing more winter storms and extreme weather. The cyclone (Storm Darwin) that hit the UK&I in 2014 was very unusual.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2024, 07:24:37 AM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Niall C

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2024, 06:39:25 AM »
Article from the British & International Golf Greenkeepers Assoc:

https://www.bigga.org.uk/news-listing/golf-course-closed-rainfall.html


David


Thanks for posting the link. One of the greenkeepers quoted in the article is the head greenkeeper on the course I grew up on and at which quite a few of my family are still members. Indeed, most Sundays I'm in the clubhouse meeting my brother for lunch. The course is a typical west of Scotland inland course with a clay soil which tends to get brick hard in long hot summers (when we occasionally get them) and a bit of a mud bath during the winter, or at least it used to. These days, due to a lot of drainage work and the regular sanding of fairways, it plays well during the winter.


Most Sundays through the winter the course is in play and on the odd occasion it is shut due to rain it is only shut for a short time. That's not always been the case. I'm not saying that as some denial in the change in weather patterns but rather to highlight how a bit of hard work and investment can make a big difference. 


Niall 

Simon Barrington

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2024, 08:11:31 AM »

"... I'm not saying that as some denial in the change in weather patterns but rather to highlight how a bit of hard work and investment can make a big difference. 
Niall "
You are absolutely right Niall that hard work and investment in drainage can really pay off (regardless of why it is happening and if this increase in rainfall is an ongoing phenomenon or not).

"Drainage, drainage and drainage" to paraphrase the Good Doctor!

My concern is so many UK (inland) clubs are spending unexpected (post-COVID boom & VAT refund) surpluses on hugely expensive incandescent white-sanded flash-faced wiggly-edged rubbercrumb-lined bunkers in an "Instagram" fad, instead of spending on the fundamentals of drainage (and irrigation) etc.

You just have to look at the proliferation of "look at my shiny new bunkers" photos on "X" & Instagram every day this winter and last...I get that clubs and greenstaff (and of course architects & suppliers) are proud of this work and the investment, but am very fearful this is spending on the wrong thing.

So many courses are losing (or have lost already) their unique aesthetic, and original design intents ("if we are building new bunkers let's move them!").
These courses are all starting to look the same, with little sympathy or relevance to their specific location/environment.

I suspect these bunkers will not last as long as advertised and be more expensive to maintain over time.
Then the fashion in c.5-10+ years will be to reverse this "generic" pastiche aesthetic to something more simpler, traditional (flat-bottomed), and relevant.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2024, 01:26:23 PM by Simon Barrington »

Richard Fisher

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2024, 09:01:13 AM »
As it happens RSD Harlech only put in a brand new irrigation system in 2021/2022, which absolutely showed its worth last summer. Nonetheless if some of your fairways are below sea level, the water table is rising, and drainage beyond the club boundaries is now sometimes compromised, there are always going to be challenges. As during the COVID period, what remains above ground (including the greens) currently look super, as not exactly over-played...as I hope Robin will be able to see for himself next month.

Simon Barrington

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2024, 09:31:51 AM »
As it happens RSD Harlech only put in a brand new irrigation system in 2021/2022, which absolutely showed its worth last summer. Nonetheless if some of your fairways are below sea level, the water table is rising, and drainage beyond the club boundaries is now sometimes compromised, there are always going to be challenges. As during the COVID period, what remains above ground (including the greens) currently look super, as not exactly over-played...as I hope Robin will be able to see for himself next month.
Hi Richard

RSD, which I enjoyed hugely and is a great course, has a very specific (below sea level) issue that will take some serious engineering, fluid mechanics and investment (including probably by neighbours and council locally) to resolve (if that is even possible).

My criticism is more towards the UK inland courses, who could solve more their mundane drainage issues far more easily if they had their priorities ordered correctly. But newer club members want the things that are visible and shiny, and don't always appreciate what they have, nor what they can't see. But, they certainly bleat when the course is closed after rain!

I know of one club who put c.£45k of drainage spending on 3 greens that always pool on hold (despite expert consultation, multiple quotations, and prior good experience with the same approach on other greens) in order to then propose spending c.£500k on a wholesale redesign of the golf course!... ::)  "Vanity" projects are very much in vogue...
« Last Edit: February 26, 2024, 09:54:29 AM by Simon Barrington »

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2024, 12:11:33 PM »
As it happens RSD Harlech only put in a brand new irrigation system in 2021/2022, which absolutely showed its worth last summer. Nonetheless if some of your fairways are below sea level, the water table is rising, and drainage beyond the club boundaries is now sometimes compromised, there are always going to be challenges. As during the COVID period, what remains above ground (including the greens) currently look super, as not exactly over-played...as I hope Robin will be able to see for himself next month.


Richard


I paid the balance on the booking today, so remain optimistic. Three nights in the dormy and hopefully two days of golf. I've never played it, so looking forward to it a great deal.
2024: RSt.D; Mill Ride; Milford; Notts; JCB, Jameson Links, Druids Glen, Royal Dublin, Portmarnock, Old Head, Addington, Parkstone, Denham, Thurlestone, Dartmouth, Rustic Canyon, LACC (N), MPCC (Shore), Cal Club, San Fran, Epsom, Casa Serena, Hayling, Co. Sligo, Strandhill, Carne, Cleeve Hill

Thomas Dai

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2024, 07:06:44 PM »

"Drainage, drainage and drainage" to paraphrase the Good Doctor!
My concern is so many UK (inland) clubs are spending unexpected (post-COVID boom & VAT) refund surpluses on hugely expensive incandescent white-sanded flash-faced wiggly-edged rubbercrumb-lined bunkers in an "Instagram" fad, instead of spending on the fundamentals of drainage (and irrigation) etc.
You just have to look at the proliferation of "look at my shiny new bunkers" photos on "X" & Instagram every day this winter and last...I get that clubs and greenstaff (and of course architects & suppliers) are proud of this work and the investment, but am very fearful this is spending on the wrong thing.
Spot on Simon. Well said.
Atb

Mark Pearce

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2024, 04:39:26 AM »
If the water table is too high, drainage isn't going to help, is it?  And criticising clubs for not being able to cope with rainfall that hasn't been seen before is harsh.  We had 8 inches of rain in October up here, and the following months have all seen well over average rainfall.  The only clubs in the county playing on 18 normal greens are the links clubs.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean_A

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2024, 06:06:34 AM »
Surely better drainage is always better. I have seen it first hand. I am not saying the drainage will guarantee 18 holes open 365 days, but it should increase the odds of better playing conditions for longer periods.


One aspect of drainage which seems to have lost favour in recent years is so called USGA spec greens. Yes, it is a costly exercise, but it can be a tremendous advantage. That said, I played one course which spent the money on the greens, but the fairways were still a bog during wet periods. Seemed rather weird to me.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2025: Machrihanish Dunes, Dunaverty and Carradale

Simon Barrington

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2024, 06:11:32 AM »
If the water table is too high, drainage isn't going to help, is it?  And criticising clubs for not being able to cope with rainfall that hasn't been seen before is harsh.  We had 8 inches of rain in October up here, and the following months have all seen well over average rainfall.  The only clubs in the county playing on 18 normal greens are the links clubs.

Mark, I completely understand your point, every situation and club is different, and each will have its own issues.
Not every club is guilty of such poor thinking, but many are.

These are exceptional periods of rainfall, but the pattern does not look like it will lessen over time.
Water Table issues are, I appreciate, much harder and need more expense and co-ordination with neighbours etc.

A large amount of UK inland clubs should be questioned for their recent decision making on highly-visible character-changing investments, too many social media pictures over the last few weeks where "the course is closed, but look our new (shiny) bunkers are draining great".
Well that's really super if the course is closed and no-one can use them anyway...that's the definition wasteful investment.

But many have/had funds burning a hole in their pocket, and there is a peer pressure like never before to spend big on oxymoronic "Course Improvement Plans"
Nevermind the enormous damage to golf's architectural heritage from insensitively imposing these modern "cut & paste" bunkers onto traditional c.100yr old courses in many cases.

Another club I know takes the opposite approach, it simply ensures the entire playing area of the course drains well (even at the current time) and if the bunkers are flooded they simply declare them GUR and allow play. No-one is playing at this time of year for a prime golfing experience; it is exercise, socialbility and fresh air IMHO, so if a few or even all the hazards are out of play for a social game so what.
They do have a rolling program of renovation and improvement of drainage in those bunkers that flood, and will gradually resolve these over time, its just having the right order of priorities and better stewardship of members' funds.

If there are external water table issues these will need addressing even more in our uncertain future, it is clear that weather events are becoming more volatile and frequent. It may be difficult and expensive but can be done (if we really require 12 months of Golf, as the UK seems to be far less accepting of course closure periods than say the US)

I have personal experience in managing a serious water table issue as c.20 years ago we had 10,000 Litres of water flowing through the ground floor of our house having punched up from below! We commissioned a Hydrologist's report (best £500 we ever spent) they gave simple but extensive open ditch and relief pipes guidance to direct the flow away from the area, we and our neighbours did the recommended work (following involving our insurance and the local council to add pressure) and we have had no groundwater flooding issues since (despite repeated heavier and persistent rainfall than the original event).
I appreciate that doing so for a golf course is an issue of far larger scale but it can, and I would argue must, be done to secure courses' future existence.

The priorities must be functional first, planning for the increasingly wet future (& possibly hotter playing seasons) to come; then deal with the aesthetic and fashionable afterwards (if you have enough money left).

Mark Pearce

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2024, 06:44:32 AM »
Of course better drainage is better and yes, clubs need to think hard about where whatever funds they have available should be spent.  The reality is, though, that there are some clubs in low lying areas that have very difficult futures, if remaining open during the winter is important.  Agreed that spending money now on flashy new bunkers, when improved drainage is needed would be foolish, but I do wonder how many have really done that.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Niall C

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2024, 08:30:23 AM »
In a UK context how many courses are spending heaps on flashy bunkers ahead of doing anything else ? I suspect not many, and those that do probably have the money to lavish elsewhere as well. When I hear first hand on proposed changes or work to courses, generally the greenkeeper has a large say and with an eye to cost savings and practicalities, sometimes to the detriment of the design. When you have places like Prestwick and Westward Ho considering using artificial revetting in their bunkers you know that they aren't doing it to be flash.


And lets not forget that bunkers do need an overhaul every few years so not to upgrade the drainage when you can just seems perverse.


Niall

Marty Bonnar

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2024, 09:03:59 AM »
Draining Clay - as opposed to Sand - is phenomenally difficult.
To get all sciency on yo’ asses, it’s all to do with ‘Particle Size Distribution’. There’s plenty of articles on the web, so I won’t get too detailed here. Suffice to say, Clay particles are waaaaay (not nearly enough a’s) smaller than Sand ones, so the spaces between them are similarly small, meaning when water gets into them it’s much harder to get out. Fully waterlogged Clay eventually turns into anaerobic Gley which is properly horrible!
Draining, say, a football pitch on anything other than Sand, you need main drains (usually perforated plastic pipes in gravel channels) at about 5m centres with slit drainage sometimes added between. Do the sums and imagine the costs for a 200 acre golf course on Clay. Doable, but expensive!
Love - and Sieve Analysis,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Simon Barrington

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2024, 09:12:44 AM »
Draining Clay - as opposed to Sand - is phenomenally difficult.
To get all sciency on yo’ asses, it’s all to do with ‘Particle Size Distribution’. There’s plenty of articles on the web, so I won’t get too detailed here. Suffice to say, Clay particles are waaaaay (not nearly enough a’s) smaller than Sand ones, so the spaces between them are similarly small, meaning when water gets into them it’s much harder to get out. Fully waterlogged Clay eventually turns into anaerobic Gley which is properly horrible!
Draining, say, a football pitch on anything other than Sand, you need main drains (usually perforated plastic pipes in gravel channels) at about 5m centres with slit drainage sometimes added between. Do the sums and imagine the costs for a 200 acre golf course on Clay. Doable, but expensive!
Love - and Sieve Analysis,
F.
Thank you for that added granularity...

Marty Bonnar

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2024, 09:30:28 AM »
Draining Clay - as opposed to Sand - is phenomenally difficult.
To get all sciency on yo’ asses, it’s all to do with ‘Particle Size Distribution’. There’s plenty of articles on the web, so I won’t get too detailed here. Suffice to say, Clay particles are waaaaay (not nearly enough a’s) smaller than Sand ones, so the spaces between them are similarly small, meaning when water gets into them it’s much harder to get out. Fully waterlogged Clay eventually turns into anaerobic Gley which is properly horrible!
Draining, say, a football pitch on anything other than Sand, you need main drains (usually perforated plastic pipes in gravel channels) at about 5m centres with slit drainage sometimes added between. Do the sums and imagine the costs for a 200 acre golf course on Clay. Doable, but expensive!
Love - and Sieve Analysis,
F.
Thank you for that added granularity...


 ;D
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2024, 11:17:58 AM »
FBD


Thank you for correcting me, should probably have referred to it as being a "heavy soil" rather than clay.


Niall

Ryan Coles

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #23 on: February 27, 2024, 05:47:26 PM »
A few points in addition to Marty’s post, and Mark’s which I also agree with.


Drainage at 5m spacing with secondary sand or gravel banding will not overcome a winter like we’ve had on clay soil. You would need to be applying heavy top dressings yearly. Even then, which no one has mentioned, compaction and worm smearing will soon seal over your nice new drainage. If you have one or two wet holes then it’s probably worth a couple of hundred grand to try and resolve. If you’re entirely on clay you are talking millions. And similar amounts in lost income whilst it is being done. There are no shutdowns in the uk for a renovation. You have to do what you can in a narrow window so as not to disrupt an already short season. Leave it too late or start too early and the mess it creates is profound.


Further, clay shrinks and swells and settlement often severely limits the lifespan of drainage, not to mention tree roots. Failed drainage is much worse than no drainage at all.


If you look at the extent of what Wisley and JCB have done, it is clearly beyond run of the mill clubs. The masses play golf on clay.  It is easy to say, remarkable what can be achieved with ‘a bit of work’. I’d say the opposite. It is remarkable how much you can spend for the very marginal benefit.


Clay is no good for at least 3 months of the year. How much are you willing to spend chasing the holy grail of winter golf and moving from a relatively cheap and affordable club that is poor in winter to becoming an expensive one that remains poor in winter?


The reality for most will be, not frilly Instagram bunkers, but mitigation: do as much fairway aeration as you can. If you have to use winter mats make them the best you can afford. Put paths in where possible.


And if you can get your bunkers draining by using liners then do it. Also many clubs can afford to drain greens these days if poorly constructed. When you are open, being on main greens is a big plus.


Is winter golf inland on clay a myth? Would clubs be better served keeping the costs down to reflect that 3 months is mostly out of play, rather than spend vast sums chasing the unachievable?

Thomas Dai

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Re: A VERY Rainy British Winter!
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2024, 06:10:58 PM »
Worth mentioning that both hidden and open drains and ditches block up in time, often quite quickly, so ongoing maintenance of them is essential. Unfortunately this aspect seems often to be neglected.
To go to one of my pet peeves, trees and scrub and brush can have a significant detrimental effect on drainage. Tree roots love drains and will scamper up them and block them in no time. They also like to overhang ditches with invaliding roots and drop branches and leaves that clog up ditches plus restricted light and airflow adversely affect matters too.
Atb