News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2023, 02:33:24 PM »
Yes, in fact at least one of the teachers at the upcoming boot camp was one of our judges, to say nothing of how well my own design associate has fared in the years since!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Lyne Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2023, 07:12:23 PM »
'They (the ASGCA) exist for the good of the game, not for the good of the members. From what I have seen, their intentions are very open and very positive.'


Mark Fine's comment got me thinking about my interactions with ASGCA members, which have been consistently welcomed, positive and rewarding for many years. With this in mind, sharing the following short story seems fitting.

Initially, as a student, I contacted ASGCA members seeking information for my Landscape Architecture thesis in golf course design. This was before the internet and email, and Rees Jones's office responded and sent material to me - in Australia.

Later, writing to Robin Nelson ASGCA led to a position as a young designer in his office. I moved countries to grasp that opportunity. At the time, the only other females in the profession were ASGCA members Alice Dye and Jan Bel Jan. Robin would chat with me about the work they were doing to improve course setup for women. That struck a chord.

Over the years, interaction, support and materials from Alice Dye, Jan Bel Jan, Jeff Brauer, Forrest Richardson, Steve Forrest, Andy Staples, Chris Cochran and Bill Coore have influenced my understanding and approach to forward tees. Equally, Arthur Little has been very generous.

Here in Australia, the average female golfer is age 65 and holds a 31 handicap. Most courses for women stretch out for 5300 metres or so - that's 5800 yards! It's often the case that holes can never be reached in regulation, even Par 3's.

This yardage overlooks the influence of course setup on the continued participation of many female players - which, perhaps unsurprisingly, sits at 19%. And, while introductory initiatives are doing well, improved course setup is critical to sustaining female involvement in the long term.

Fixed thinking has dictated that change is slow here, so it's pleasing to share that one of my clients recently became the first traditional club in Australia to embrace the construction of professionally designed forward tees across all 18 holes. With females and juniors largely absent from tee sheets and determined to turn things around, they look forward to developing a more diverse and sustainable club environment.

The reason for sharing this story is the direct link to the ASGCA members who, for many years, generously responded to professional queries, supported a female in a non-traditional field and consistently encouraged my interest in developing a more enjoyable game for the slow swing speed player. I can add that other ASGCA members have been equally willing to respond to random emails with technical queries.

Geographically, I am far removed from the United States. However, the work I am doing to effect change and improve course set up for women and seniors in Australia is primarily due to the influence of these ASGCA members supporting the good of the game.

I remain especially grateful for this.

Lyne

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2023, 02:12:02 PM »
Professor Jeff Brauer:

Any update on how many have signed up and are scheduled to take/complete the course?  Any chance you could share the final exam with the masses here to see the question and potential design solutions/


BK

 

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2023, 02:36:14 PM »
Lyne,


I'm glad that you have had good experiences with ASGCA, but not surprised.  Sports and Leisure Research, among others, notes that we must be the most cooperative and willing to share knowledge of any group they have worked with.  And, the Jones clan were among the first that I experienced that with, including an RTJ (signed, probably written by Roger Rulewhich) letter response to me when I was just 14.  Killian and Nugent had me into their office around the same time to show me what it was like.  And I still take calls from members and non-members alike asking for some kind of specific help based on experience, which, if I don't know, forward to other members to answer.  I had one this morning on the "standard" tonnage rating for cart path bridges.  I don't think it is so prevalent that "Brauering" is the golf course design equivalent of Googling, but we try.


Bruce,


I am not running that enrollment program, but have fielded a few of the inquiries to date.  They fall into the Xmas Experience Present category......or the "I want to but have to ask my wife," and/or "I must pay Xmas bills first" responses.  No problem, and it is open enrollment for a while.


Similarly, while I did participate in what are are calling the school solution, we aren't sharing that so students can come up with their own.  I suspect the results will be made public after the camp in some way.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2023, 10:00:59 AM »
Thank you Jeff.


BK

Peter Bowman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2023, 03:32:20 PM »

I like where the money is going:

The chief beneficiary is the Clearview Legacy Foundation, whose mission is to preserve the legacy and facilities at Clearview Golf Club, in Ohio, the only course in the country built, owned and operated by an African-American.

[/size]If you're betting I'd be interested in the course, you'd be correct, but that's where it ends.An attendee would be a fool to think any 4 day crash course could grant a legitimate credential in the field of GCA.  For some busy folks, 4-days to learn and experience a deeper understanding of the breadth of the job may be an efficient (albeit expensive) way to get their feet wet and get their hands dirty to see if it's anything they'd want to pursue further.I have been in touch with a couple local GCAs who say they'd be happy to have me shadow on the job from time to time.  Unfortunately, time is currently my limiting asset, but that will change as years roll forward. A course like this could make me more useful to them and I could learn quicker by putting theory into experience. I'll be there to learn, work, and contribute in exchange for the generosity of their time.Many of golf's greatest GCAs had careers elsewhere first.  Let's look at a few...Pete Dye- Insurance salesman.  I think it's great he let you work on his projects for 4 years before you went out on your own.Alister Mackenzie- physicianSeth Raynor- engineerRTJ Sr- engineering student and club proTom Simpon- lawyerHenry Colt- lawyerAW Tillinghast- journalistBill Coore- GC Super (like my dad)Then there are those who were virtual mega millionaires and pursued architecture:CB MacDonaldHenry FownesGeorge CrumpI dont believe there's a dentist on that list yet...Hopes of becoming a GCA aside, a boot camp like this can benefit my home course, perhaps with a better understanding of what NOT to do and why.  Some members of Hooper's Greens Committee have been pushing for removal of some of Stiles' original bunkers on 5 and 7, and the newer fairway bunkers on 9.  They successfully overruled my vote 2 years ago in removing one on 6. They don't appear interested in my suggestion to hire a consulting architect first.  It has been difficult to conclude whether this is because they assume it is cost prohibitive, or they simply don't want the expert advice.  Will the Committee heed the cautious suggestions of a 4-day architecture course "graduate" instead?  Doubtful, but you never know.I agree the price tag is a deal breaker for many.  Does it buy the same experience an intern working for peanuts will receive?  Of course not.   Those are two different animals, but it's a taste.



Agreed.  I had missed that when I first made the post.  I was wondering where all the $ was going.  Maybe I should do a seminar next year and give all the proceeds to charity?


If indeed the participants all look at it like a baseball fantasy camp, no problems here.  I doubt that will happen, though.  I'm betting it's our dentist from Hooper and other guys who will try to use it as a credential, like I've seen some people use the week-long Harvard course . . . and if that's what happens, I'm surprised ASGCA is giving people the credential.


Honestly, though, my main take is that the seminar is aimed at poseurs rather than actual students.  I still remember that, as much help as I got in my youth from everyone else in the greater world of golf, the ASGCA were the outliers . . . they were no help at all, not encouraging in the slightest.  [Not that that should reflect on current members.]  That's the real reason I never wanted to join.  I'd rather put my money toward our internships.
[/color]

Peter Bowman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2023, 03:33:07 PM »
no idea why the formatting above is so poor. I certainly didnt write it jammed up like that

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back