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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« on: November 17, 2023, 06:57:08 AM »
I just read this on golf.com


https://golf.com/lifestyle/could-you-design-golf-course/




I'm glad Ran went in a different direction with this site.


Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2023, 07:11:19 AM »
Sounds like a fun thing to do. Wish I had 20 grand lying around.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2023, 08:11:53 AM »
At Erin Hills? Sounds familiar!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2023, 08:12:55 AM »
Sounds like a great experience for those to be able make it work.  Well qualified "instructors" and experienced GCA's from ASGCA.  A way for those who have a passion for GCA and are probably looking to get more in depth.  I have bid on various "day in the dirt" auction items where you visit a GCA at one of their projects. At least 1 on here has done it several times, and probably others.   I see this as a way to allow us GCA geeks to have a truly great experience in a passion we share. Also a nice fundraising opportunity for ASGCA, which 15k appears to directly be a charitable contribution to.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2023, 08:16:35 AM »
I know a guy who went to Atlanta Braves fantasy camp for adults one time.  It's in Orlando and often the week of the PGA show.  He got his own lil Braves uniform and had total submersion for a week with retired Braves, locker room, practice games and Glavine throwing at 40 mph.  He went again...he really liked the after practice shower part and sitting in the steam...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2023, 08:18:27 AM »
Hmmm.
The fees for our MSc were c. £10k for A YEAR of study.
F.
PS Oh, and we left it with a Masters degree, not just a lovely colour print of our designs (which we had too!)
« Last Edit: November 17, 2023, 08:22:35 AM by Marty Bonnar »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2023, 09:39:06 AM »
Hmmm.
The fees for our MSc were c. £10k for A YEAR of study.
F.
PS Oh, and we left it with a Masters degree, not just a lovely colour print of our designs (which we had too!)


How much !! You wiz robbed. I'm sure I paid half that for the inaugural course in 1999. Remind me, what year did you do it ?


Niall

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2023, 09:44:32 AM »
Hmmm.
The fees for our MSc were c. £10k for A YEAR of study.
F.
PS Oh, and we left it with a Masters degree, not just a lovely colour print of our designs (which we had too!)


How much !! You wiz robbed. I'm sure I paid half that for the inaugural course in 1999. Remind me, what year did you do it ?


Niall


2002\3. 20 years this year! IIRC, I thought we paid two 5kís. Might be wrong. If any of the lads are still here, maybe they can confirm. Brian?
Cheers,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 10:00:13 AM »
In fairness, we were the guinea pigs. Mike was more or less putting the course together as we went along.


Niall

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2023, 10:12:56 AM »
The $15,000 federal tax credit makes the $20,000 fee a bit more palatable. I donít think having golf course design aspirations is a prerequisite for enjoying the experience as any architecture nerd should come away with a greater level of knowledge as to what the process entails.

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2023, 10:29:00 AM »
The $15,000 federal tax credit makes the $20,000 fee a bit more palatable. I donít think having golf course design aspirations is a prerequisite for enjoying the experience as any architecture nerd should come away with a greater level of knowledge as to what the process entails.
Tim giving to a non profit is great and this case no exception.  Seeing tax credit made me check again as that would be amazing. It is a deduction, so while nice, not as generous as a credit.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2023, 10:41:18 AM »
The $15,000 federal tax credit makes the $20,000 fee a bit more palatable. I donít think having golf course design aspirations is a prerequisite for enjoying the experience as any architecture nerd should come away with a greater level of knowledge as to what the process entails.
Tim giving to a non profit is great and this case no exception.  Seeing tax credit made me check again as that would be amazing. It is a deduction, so while nice, not as generous as a credit.


Jeff-Thanks for the correction. That would be quite an incentive if it was in fact a credit instead of a deduction. Sorry for the error.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2023, 10:49:06 AM »
So for $20,000 I can replace Ron Whitten as co-designer of Erin Hills?!?!


I'm listening...
H.P.S.

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2023, 11:17:34 AM »
I know a guy who went to Atlanta Braves fantasy camp for adults one time.  It's in Orlando and often the week of the PGA show.  He got his own lil Braves uniform and had total submersion for a week with retired Braves, locker room, practice games and Glavine throwing at 40 mph.  He went again...he really liked the after practice shower part and sitting in the steam...


Tell you what, if I know Dana Fry, he's gonna challenge those campers with the heater until they prove they can find the barrel.


Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2023, 12:16:50 PM »
Tom,


We are aware that some may be somewhat intimidated, and we are focusing on making this fun and educational at the same time.  I mean, even around here, one of the cruelest questions is "So, what would you design?"  Everyone loves critiquing, but no one loves it when incoming......... Although, if this is to be truly realistic maybe a short course in accepting critiques should be among the topics.


While the attendees will have some real design challenges, being slapped on the wrist with a ruler will not be one of them, at least not[size=78%] [/size]for the poor guys/gals who draw me as an instructor.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2023, 12:31:58 PM »
Didn't GSD @ Harvard used to do a short/summer course in course design during summer term?




Back in the day in LA school, I had a classmate who always wanted to do something different from the norm; this student was more on the creative/artistic side of the design world; practicality was secondary.


For one project, this student decided to turn the site layout 180 degrees, resulting in the design having a "South Arrow" facing the top on the page, not a "North Arrow" as is standard practice.


this resulted in an A+ for creativity and a design very different from the class, mean, median & mode.  While some were not happy thinking outside the box (and accepted norm) was positively rewarded; my take away was to always look at site mapping from all directions; something no one else sees may just pop out by rotating the page.

Peter Flory

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2023, 04:12:56 PM »
I know a guy who went to Atlanta Braves fantasy camp for adults one time.  It's in Orlando and often the week of the PGA show.  He got his own lil Braves uniform and had total submersion for a week with retired Braves, locker room, practice games and Glavine throwing at 40 mph.  He went again...he really liked the after practice shower part and sitting in the steam...


As long as they don't require the ice baths, it sounds like a good time to me. 

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2023, 05:09:48 PM »
Hmmm.
The fees for our MSc were c. £10k for A YEAR of study.
F.
PS Oh, and we left it with a Masters degree, not just a lovely colour print of our designs (which we had too!)


How much !! You wiz robbed. I'm sure I paid half that for the inaugural course in 1999. Remind me, what year did you do it ?


Niall


2002\3. 20 years this year! IIRC, I thought we paid two 5kís. Might be wrong. If any of the lads are still here, maybe they can confirm. Brian?
Cheers,
F.


Canít remember what the two year EIGCA course cost in 2007 but it was about the sameÖ and it was properly structured education with hundreds of applicants for 12-15 spaces.


Thatís not to belittle this idea. Iím sure it will be great fun for those with an interest.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2023, 07:00:51 PM »
I know a guy who went to Atlanta Braves fantasy camp for adults one time.  It's in Orlando and often the week of the PGA show.  He got his own lil Braves uniform and had total submersion for a week with retired Braves, locker room, practice games and Glavine throwing at 40 mph.  He went again...he really liked the after practice shower part and sitting in the steam...


Tell you what, if I know Dana Fry, he's gonna challenge those campers with the heater until they prove they can find the barrel.
I'm sure Dana, Jeff and others will challenge them.  Going to be an interesting experiment.  The price is what amuses me.
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2023, 07:11:52 PM »
I know a guy who went to Atlanta Braves fantasy camp for adults one time.  It's in Orlando and often the week of the PGA show.  He got his own lil Braves uniform and had total submersion for a week with retired Braves, locker room, practice games and Glavine throwing at 40 mph.  He went again...he really liked the after practice shower part and sitting in the steam...


As long as they don't require the ice baths, it sounds like a good time to me.
Peter,If you don't like the ice baths try cryotherapy...I do it a couple times a month...
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2023, 07:31:12 PM »
Kids come into the flight deck during boarding all the time. Itís great fun. We toss them in the seat, turn on some flight deck lights for them, take pictures, etc. When an adult does it I have to tamp down my cynicism. They have genuine interest and excitement. And they often know a lot about what I do. I try to remember that I fawn and wax over golf architecture and Iíve asked and been allowed to follow pros around in the field and watch a little of what they do. Is this course by the ASGCA corny? Yeah. Do I think theyíll learn something and feel like they got their moneyís worth? Yes I do. More power to them.


By the by Mike, since I was very young Iíve only ever wanted to be two things in life. A pilot and an Atlanta Brave. Javy Lopez got behind the plate before I could. But I just know if theyíd seen me playÖ😂

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2023, 08:56:27 AM »

Canít remember what the two year EIGCA course cost in 2007 but it was about the sameÖ and it was properly structured education with hundreds of applicants for 12-15 spaces.


Thatís not to belittle this idea. Iím sure it will be great fun for those with an interest.


Ally


I'm not saying that the Edinburgh College of Art/Heriot Watt course wasn't structured but that it just wasn't fully developed. For instance, we pitched up one day to be told we were off to St Andrews to meet Peter Thomson at the Duke's course. No warning, no prior notice, just that was what we were doing that day and off we went.


In terms of numbers, I'm not sure how many actual applicants they got but there were 8 of us doing the course and I'd surmise by some of those that were on the course that they had accepted anyone who was willing to pay the fees. If we'd all applied in later years I strongly suspect that less than half of us would be accepted and I'm doubtful I'd have been one of those.


Niall

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2023, 09:12:48 AM »
It's a nice concept... but in four days it's hard to think you can have more than the introduction to the introduction in golf course design...




Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2023, 09:50:00 AM »
Interesting.


Over the years I must have given 25 one day GCA courses to greenkeepers, greenscommittee members, contractors and Golf Federation officials in various European countries. (total number of people was probably around 600).


Goal was to give the attendees a basic understanding of what they know and do not know in the field of GCA. About 10% of the participants become clients one way or another, but te main goal is to educate people enough so they don't do bad/stupid stuff to (their) golf courses.


We only charged significantly less, 150 euro per person..... ;)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf Design Boot Camp ?
« Reply #24 on: November 18, 2023, 10:35:37 AM »
The concept sounds very interesting as I've always wanted to do something like this, although perhaps on an actual site where stuff is happening on the ground.

But that price tag for 4 days?  Even 5k seems unreasonable much less 20.   :-\

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