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Philip Winter

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Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« on: October 11, 2023, 12:24:56 PM »
I'm looking for examples of small-scale grass ditches/arroyos that run through a hole (or various holes). Royal Worlington has a good one (on holes 1,7,3) and of course the 14th at Pasatiempo... But I'm looking for something smaller scale, which plays either laterally alongside a hole or cuts through a hole. Specifically looking for examples of ditches that have short (or shortish) grass. Making a very playable hazard for the high handicap and annoying hazard for the low handicap.
Any pointers would be very much appreciated. :)

David_Tepper

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2023, 12:59:36 PM »
#4 at Golspie (called "Gully") is a 522-yard par-5 with a wide & deep swale that crosses the fairway 110-120 yards short of the green. From the bottom of the swale most golfers will not be able to see the flagstick.


Video flyover of the hole here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1j0HA1Zoqc

 
 

Ben Hollerbach

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2023, 01:19:53 PM »
The 3rd at Landmand reminds me of what you described.

Landmand Hole 3 "Waterway"



Erik J. Barzeski

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Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2023, 03:16:38 PM »
#16 at Silverknowes (Edinburgh)

#6 at Carrick Knowe (Edinburgh)

There are plenty of arroyos that cross fairways in central Texas where I'm from, but they aren't typically playable because they tend to be rocky. I can think of #14 at Star Ranch outside of Austin.
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Stewart Abramson

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Ken Moum

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2023, 07:47:50 PM »
Stewart,  lotta nice arroyos and ditches, but I think you missed this, " Specifically looking for examples of ditches that have short (or shortish) grass. "
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Stewart Abramson

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2023, 08:03:26 PM »
Stewart,  lotta nice arroyos and ditches, but I think you missed this, " Specifically looking for examples of ditches that have short (or shortish) grass. "




OOoops.  Brain must have been disengaged. Apologies.

Philip Winter

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2023, 10:02:18 AM »

Thank you Stewart and Ken! Very much appreciate all of the images.


Indeed the key I'm looking for is "short(ish) grass". The Landmand example above is a very good one. However, the knee-high grass on its edges makes it somewhat unplayable and likely to have some lost balls. That hazard would be so much better in my opinion if it were normal rough as opposed to knee-high rough.
 

Stewart,  lotta nice arroyos and ditches, but I think you missed this, " Specifically looking for examples of ditches that have short (or shortish) grass. "




OOoops.  Brain must have been disengaged. Apologies.

Lawson Klotz

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2023, 10:35:28 AM »
The 2nd at Brook Hollow (TX) falls in the “short-ish” grass category and is probably the most trafficked example on the course.


https://flic.kr/p/2p8YoWk


https://www.instagram.com/p/CDh-s40l5b5/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2023, 12:08:18 PM »
16@Merion East

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Dan_Callahan

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2023, 02:41:13 PM »
Didn't a few holes at LACC have this feature? I thought I saw that at the US Open, but can't remember how long the grass was.

Mike Wagner

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2023, 02:53:28 PM »
Talking Stick #12 is the best example in AZ .. there's grass at times .. and in places. It's just enough to get your attention that you don't want to be in it, but you're not done if you are.

Jim Hoak

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2023, 03:51:57 PM »
The work that Keith Foster did at Brook Hollow in Dallas immediately came to mind--and then I saw the post by Lawson saying that too.
Keith used this concept throughout the course--although #2 may be the best example as Lawson said.  It was partly done to commemorate the lost "brook," but it also was done because Keith loved the use of them at Sunningdale, one of his favorites.

James Reader

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2023, 04:38:26 PM »
One I played recently that might fit what you’re looking for is the 2nd at East Renfrewshire.


https://www.eastrengolfclub.co.uk/course/hole/2/

Sean_A

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2023, 07:24:38 PM »
14 Palmetto has a gully cut through the fairway. It's short grass and I expect during rainy times it carries water.

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Mark Kiely

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2023, 08:29:46 PM »
How about this from Primm Valley (Desert)? (Click on the image to go to the full-size image on Flickr. Click it to enlarge there.)


IMG_20160819_161949828 by Mark, on Flickr
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Tom_Doak

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2023, 10:20:54 PM »
Just be careful in designing these . . . if they collect a lot of runoff from nearby holes they could wind up being a real headache.

Michael Robin

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Re: Looking for examples of great grass ditches/arroyos...?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2023, 12:19:44 AM »
Left of 8 at Bel-Air, for that matter, while not grassed the arroyos/dry washes Tom and friends re-introduced all over Bel-Air might apply.


10th at Lakeside GC, in Toluca Lake, CA (Max Behr) is a big forced carry off the tee over a grassed over creek that also runs left of 17, across 18, then across 8 and 4 to the LA River where it once deposited water. The forced carry to the green on 8 there might be right on point.

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