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Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« on: October 02, 2023, 07:53:54 AM »
As a follow-up to the LaCava incident on the 18th green on the Saturday evening in Rome how would you have reacted if you'd been one of the players on the green when the incident happened or one of the Team Captains, Vice-Captains?
Responses might wish to consider incidents from previous Ryder Cups and events that could potentially occur in the future.

atb

For film of the incident as cross-referred in another GCA thread see - [/color]https://twitter.com/KylePorterCBS/status/1708410133603103026



For other 2023 etc Ryder Cup comments see also - https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,72316.0.html

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2023, 08:00:32 AM »
Why does he look drunk?

John Kavanaugh

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Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2023, 09:26:35 AM »
If at the Lido we are asked to treat caddies like our Son or Daughter then I would do exactly that and defend in public while discussing in private. Kind of like exactly what happened.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2023, 10:19:52 AM »
Billy Foster was rather quiet and he was nearest caddy to LaCava  ::)


I felt LaCava did breach McIlroy's 'personal space' to enable him to focus on the putt.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2023, 11:25:12 AM »
I'm sure JohnVDB will correct me on this, but to my knowledge there aren't any code of conduct rules (at least not in the R&A rules) for what LaCava did on 18.  Not that I condone his acts in any way, shape, or manner....he clearly stepped over the line.

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2023, 11:52:54 AM »
Surprisingly I agree with Kavanaugh. Handle behind the scenes.


Also, Thomas asked how we would have reacted (I assume you meant if we were in Rory's shoes). I'm pretty oblivious sometimes, I'd have probably putted while LaCava was still waving his hat around. But I'm not a high-level competitor looking for bulletin board material.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2023, 11:55:44 AM »
If he's my caddie, or my partner's caddie, or my player's playing partner's caddie, I'm telling him to get the f*%& off the green and stop embarrassing me.  If I'm Rory, and he approaches me again after having started to move away, I hope I'm as patient as McIlroy was but don't trust myself to be so.

Peter Sayegh

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Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2023, 12:03:20 PM »

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2023, 12:11:06 PM »
If he's my caddie, or my partner's caddie, or my player's playing partner's caddie, I'm telling him to get the f*%& off the green and stop embarrassing me.  If I'm Rory, and he approaches me again after having started to move away, I hope I'm as patient as McIlroy was but don't trust myself to be so.
Perfect answer.
I hope my previous attachment illustrates Mark's point.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2023, 12:13:59 PM »
I will ask players that stand behind me when I hit to move out of my sight line. I would have asked Lacava to move as well. Caddies should know better.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2023, 03:07:46 PM »
Pushcarts would solve half of the problem.

Paul Jones

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Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2023, 04:20:24 PM »
I'm sure JohnVDB will correct me on this, but to my knowledge there aren't any code of conduct rules (at least not in the R&A rules) for what LaCava did on 18.  Not that I condone his acts in any way, shape, or manner....he clearly stepped over the line.



1.2 Standards of Player Conduct
a. Conduct Expected of All Players
All players are expected to play in the spirit of the game by:

Acting with integrity – for example, by following the Rules, applying all penalties, and being honest in all aspects of play.

Showing consideration to others – for example, by playing at a prompt pace, looking out for the safety of others, and not distracting the play of another player. If a player plays a ball in a direction where there might be a danger of hitting someone, they should immediately shout a warning, such as the traditional warning of “fore”.

Taking good care of the course – for example, by replacing divots, smoothing bunkers, repairing ball-marks, and not causing unnecessary damage to the course.

There is no penalty under the Rules for failing to act in this way, except that the Committee may disqualify a player for acting contrary to the spirit of the game if it finds that the player has committed serious misconduct.

“Serious misconduct” is player behaviour that is so far removed from what is expected in golf that the most severe sanction of removing a player from the competition is justified.

Penalties other than disqualification may be imposed for player misconduct only if those penalties are adopted as part of a Code of Conduct under Rule 1.2b.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2023, 04:21:43 PM »

1.2 Standards of Player Conduct
a. Conduct Expected of All Players
All players are expected to play in the spirit of the game by:

Acting with integrity – for example, by following the Rules, applying all penalties, and being honest in all aspects of play.

Showing consideration to others – for example, by playing at a prompt pace, looking out for the safety of others, and not distracting the play of another player. If a player plays a ball in a direction where there might be a danger of hitting someone, they should immediately shout a warning, such as the traditional warning of “fore”.

Taking good care of the course – for example, by replacing divots, smoothing bunkers, repairing ball-marks, and not causing unnecessary damage to the course.

There is no penalty under the Rules for failing to act in this way, except that the Committee may disqualify a player for acting contrary to the spirit of the game if it finds that the player has committed serious misconduct.

“Serious misconduct” is player behaviour that is so far removed from what is expected in golf that the most severe sanction of removing a player from the competition is justified.

Penalties other than disqualification may be imposed for player misconduct only if those penalties are adopted as part of a Code of Conduct under Rule 1.2b.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2023, 07:53:17 PM »
Thanks for the posting that Paul.


After this RC, they may need to edit that to say "Standards of Player and Caddy Conduct"  ;D

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2023, 08:26:36 PM »
Call for a referee, ask for a penalty for inappropriate behavior..
Result: loss of a hole, tie match... without having to make the putt..


Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2023, 08:38:54 PM »
There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris

Ronald Montesano

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Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2023, 08:50:41 PM »
Coincidentally, this problem arises in high school coaching, with coaches approaching opposing players and engaging them during the course of a match.
Coming in August 2023
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2023, 09:59:32 PM »
Makes you appreciate Matsuama’s (sp) caddie bowing to Augusta National. This feels like wrestling. Is there an honorable player on either side who will say that the entire event and both sides have lost the spirit of the event, acted unacceptably and together sullied Mr. Ryder’s good name and action? We are quickly becoming tennis. Mob mentality rules.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2023, 10:29:33 PM »
There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris


Funny, in the video it clearly looks like LaCava  is the bully. He looked like he was ready to fight. If Steve Williams was Rory’s caddie I’m thinking LaCava would found himself laying on the green. Rory obviously never should have vented at Bones. Also pretty interesting that Cantlay looked right at LaCava yelling at Rory and he walked away instead of telling his Caddie to get away from Rory.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2023, 10:56:39 PM »
There’s no question the European fan’s behavior was piss [size=78%]poor and that in part led to LaCava’s response.  There’s no question what LaCava did in response was wrong.[/size]



The part I have a major problem with was Rory getting in a shooting match with one of the nicest caddies on tour later that night and someone known to be very easy going.  It is very easy to pick a fight with someone that doesn’t fight back.  I have and will continue to never like bullies or bullying behavior and that’s what this looks like.  And then, he apologizes to said caddie via text!  Classy is a two way street.  Very very disappointed in Rory and it has nothing to do with his actions on the course.


Chris


Funny, in the video it clearly looks like LaCava  is the bully. He looked like he was ready to fight. If Steve Williams was Rory’s caddie I’m thinking LaCava would found himself laying on the green. Rory obviously never should have vented at Bones. Also pretty interesting that Cantlay looked right at LaCava yelling at Rory and he walked away instead of telling his Caddie to get away from Rory.


Couldn’t agree more thanks for making my point and that’s why Rory should have shouted or yelled at him instead of Bones !!




Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2023, 05:02:51 AM »
The Euros are now calling Rory - Rocky Mcilroy  ;D

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2023, 05:12:08 AM »

Call for a referee, ask for a penalty for inappropriate behavior..
Result: loss of a hole, tie match... without having to make the putt..

Which was first brought up after the dreadful scenes when Justin Leonard holed that putt at Brookline, in 1999.

Geezo, 24 years on, and nothing changes when it comes to Team USA's behaviour  ::)

Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2023, 06:45:37 AM »
   Do we know whether Bones attempted to defend his buddy’s indefensible behavior during the parking lot dust up? It looked like a two way argument.

John Challenger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2023, 07:09:18 AM »
It seems clear to me that LaCava overreacted and should have not continued his celebration. Cantlay should have intervened and moved him back. Lowry was right to intervene. Also, it seems clear that Rory should not have become incensed in the parking lot, but feelings were running high. It's why the Ryder Cup has become golf's most compelling competition. It was a highly charged moment. If all is forgiven, great...but it's human nature for there to be some lingering feelings. They'll get over it. BTW, the Solheim Cup was extraordinary too.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2023, 07:19:32 AM by John Challenger »

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The LaCava incident. How would you have reacted?
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2023, 07:30:51 AM »
A conversation with some mates suggested that Rory and Luke could have called over Cantley and Zak and quietly pointed out to them in a dignified and gentle manner the importance of integrity, honour, respect, courtesy, decorum etc within the game of golf and suggested that Cantley should pick up Rory’s ball. Bit like Jason Leonard or Ben Crenshaw could have picked up JM Olazabal’s ball in 1999 if Olly and Mark James had called for a wee chat.
Such a diplomatic approach to handling of the incident could even have set a precedent for preventing or at least limiting any iffy and controversial incidents at future Ryder Cups the more so in view of forthcoming host venues and the apparent behavioural reputation of the localities ‘sports fans’.

Atb



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