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Chris Kane

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2003, 02:52:39 AM »
Mike,
Would you place 15 at Yarra in the class of the ones listed previously?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2003, 04:57:45 AM »
Chris
It is a very good hole that is intimidating enough to induce a poor shot .Not as good as the others but it would be in the best 5 in Sydney.
Horrible new mounds around the tee - at least they look horrible from the road.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mitch Hantman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2003, 05:33:08 AM »
I would add #4 at Hollywood.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2003, 02:29:14 PM »
Good question.  I suppose they have truly been out of favor for a long time.  I think most golfers prefer visibility.  And most architects know that Par 3's are a place to put the entire hole in the golfers eye at once, so uphill holes seem a waste here.

I know I don't design many, but I did do a fairly dramatic uphill 17th at Cowboys, although that was a staff input more than real conviction on my part.  The key is that the bunkering still gives a good indication of the green limits.  The hole actually feels quite good standing on the tee, so I may do more.  I actually had one planned on a new course in Kansas, but a land swap effectively negated that chance.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Chris_Blakely

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2003, 06:49:59 PM »
Galen Hall CC in Pennsylvania has two interesting ones, the 7th hole is about 130 yard hole surrounded by bunkers.  The 17th is about 194 yards and has a green that is cut into the hillside.  Hershey GC - Parkview course has the only blind uphill par 3 that I have played (5th hole) and has to rise at least 45 feet from tee to green and plays at 130 yards or so.  Most people will most likely not like this hole; however, I found it unique and a lot of fun to play this diferent hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Forrest Richardson

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2003, 08:50:46 PM »
During high school I played at The Valley Club, an Arizona layout by David Gill located at the site of the current Phoenician Golf Resort. The Valley Club's 12th (I think) played durectly uphill to a very raised green, about 30 feet above the tees. The flagstick was about 12-feet high! There was no way to see the putting surface, but it was a real hoot. I miss the hole and the quirky feel. David was a special friend...he was among those who encouraged me into this art. I miss him every time I think of him. His son, Garrett, continues the Gill legacy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2003, 08:46:53 PM »
I agree that uphill par 3's are more out of fashion, so views or water features can be utilized.  Too bad, I love uphill/blind approaches.

I also think #5 at Pebble was a very good uphill par 3.  Now there are none at PB.

An all-world uphill par 3 is #14 at Rolling Green.  ~200 yards, across a chasm to a NADER-ish green with death right (chasm).

The hidden gem Mark Twain (Ross muni in Elmira, NY), mentioned also by Mike C and Brad K in the past, has all 4 par 3's uphill.  #11 is 200+ uphill to a severely tilted green.  #7 was a good one, too.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2003, 06:18:18 PM »
Here are a few pictures from my home course's very own uphill par-3...the 158 yard 16th hole at Dubuque Golf & Country Club. Not sure if this particular hole is one of Bendelow's originals on the course, but it fits in nicely with the character of the rest of the holes.

What I personally enjoy about the hole is the need to guess at the correct yardage...especially with the prevailing wind into the player's face.  Also, the hole posesses a nice "false front" area that makes the front pin placement deadly if you are long, and a tough up-and-down if you shortside yourself.  The green is protected on both sides by bunkers, and the smallish greens makes for a tough target.  Just a fun little hole to play.

View from the teebox


A closer view of the front of the green complex


The left-hand greenside bunker and false front
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Willsy

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2003, 12:21:02 AM »
Jamie,

My home course in Sydney, Bonnie Doon, has a really interesting par 3 on the 12. You can see it on the web site http://www.bonniedoongolfclub.com.au/You can just see the sloping green from the tee and the hole is usually subject to strong southerly's which means you often have to aim way left over scrubb and OOB which means it can be fun if the wind is really blowing. This is the highest part of the course. The other good thing is that the old guys can still bunt the ball up the hill if they are lacking strenght. BDGC is very links like and as you can see it is a classic Aussie interpretation of this style.
It is a tough par for most players on a windy day and the green is normally very quick and hard so birdies are rare.
And while we are at it check out the 3rd hole from the tee.
Cheers.


Quote
Uphill par three's, are they out of fashion forever more? What features help make them acceptable?

In particular I think of the 14th at Wentworth which is a solid hole but one which would be questioned if you came up with that routing nowadays.

What good uphill par three's do you know of and what characteristics make them playable and interesting?

cheers

jamie
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Neil Regan

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2003, 05:43:23 AM »
Ballybunion Old #12
Siwanoy #13
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Doug Siebert

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2003, 03:40:24 PM »
If the 17th at Crail Craigshead is the one I'm thinking of, its a good example.  Uphill, around 200 yards over a number of deep bunkers.  I don't know if it'd be worse playing into a strong wind or with a strong wind, given that the slope behind the green and slope of the green itself would make a shot from behind it have a good chance of rolling into one of those of bunkers due to the quick greens.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2003, 04:41:42 PM »
Sorry to be late to the discussion on this one.

My favorite uphill par 3 is #11 at Essex County Club (MA). A great mid-long iron to a well bunkered and treacherous back to front sloping green.

Ran gives the hole great commentary and photos at Essex's course profile here at GCA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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James Edwards

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #37 on: April 16, 2003, 04:53:48 PM »
Jamie, Laun

How about Swinley Forests 4th?  possibly one of the best ive played.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #38 on: April 16, 2003, 05:10:15 PM »
I'm thinking #9 at Crystal Downs is pretty good.  In my mind, #17 Sand Hills is uphill as well.

But, while there are a number of uphill par 3s, I am having a hard time remembering many that I'd say are world class.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #39 on: April 16, 2003, 05:31:38 PM »
Here's, what looks to be, a super uphill par 3, a "2 or 20" hole if ever I've seen one (at least the prevailing wind isn't pushing down the drop!).  It's the 5th at Shanklin & Sandown, a James Braid course on the Isle of Wight.  From my brief peruse of the handbook, it looks like an interesting course.






« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:04 PM by -1 »
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Pete_Pittock

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #40 on: April 16, 2003, 06:00:53 PM »
Alderbrook #15 in Tillamook, Oregon. 128 yards, minimum guess on the rise is 50 feet, probably closer to 75 feet. The tees are level, so it's really treacherous from the front tees, where the slope beckons at a 45 degree angle. My low angle shots usually skip up the hill.
I've heard on occasion they don't even put a flag in the hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mitch Hantman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #41 on: April 16, 2003, 06:53:03 PM »
Lawsonia Links #4 is an uphill, long bona find Redan hole.  Quite unique, difficult, and striking.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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RJ_Daley

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Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #42 on: April 16, 2003, 06:58:49 PM »
Mitch, I thought of #4 Lawsonia, but didn't mention it as I get learly about always being a homer. ::)  It is a redan playing hole from the white tees usually playing about 190-200 and the blues about 210-215.

A hole that sticks in my mind as playing uphill and somewhat similar to 4 Lawsonia, is #7 (I think) at Southern Pines.  I haven't seen it in about 3 years and my memory might be slightly foggy.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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bodgeblack

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #43 on: April 17, 2003, 02:48:27 AM »
Paul

Fantastic photos, tough hole. Is that course still there on the Isle of Wight?

JJSE

I agree, I reckon the 4th at Swinley is as good as they come but only bring your A game for that shot!

cheers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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James Edwards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #44 on: April 17, 2003, 03:22:19 AM »
Jamie, Paul

It sounds like you both are local to me?

Where you  members?  Get in Contact, we should go for a game somewhere.

James
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #45 on: April 17, 2003, 05:23:32 AM »
Jamie Black:

#5 at Prestwick is Himalayas (spell??) and is actually slightly DOWNhill from tee to green although the intervening mountain does give it an uphill flavor.  Alps is #17 - a rather famous par 4.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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JohnV

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #46 on: April 17, 2003, 05:40:58 AM »
The 15th hole at Salishan on the Oregon coast is a 115 yard straight uphill par 3.  You can only see the top of the flag when it is on the front of the green.  A friend of mine got his first 3 holes in one on that hole.  He never got to see one go in the hole.  He finally got one on the 4th hole there and got to see it go in.

It isn't a great hole, but the view from the green looking up the coast is magnificent.

The hole that Peter mentioned was the #1 hole in the Oregonian's worst 9 holes in Oregon a few years ago as I recall.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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bodgeblack

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2003, 06:06:03 AM »
chipoat,

thanks, you are correct, apologies for getting the name wrong (I knew it had to be one of those damned mountain ranges!)

cheers
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2003, 06:59:12 AM »
Jamie

Yes, Shanklin & Sandown is still there and so is that par 3, a good chance of being a true "hidden gem".  
Not sure I'll ever get there, it's a bit tricky to get to, only been to the IOW once and that was by sail from Portsmouth.

JJSE

Live on the wrong side of the Pond now.  But travel back fairly often.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Uphill Par 3's
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2003, 07:59:22 AM »
How about #3 at Merion?

There's no "hill" to climb from the tee until the very front of the green - in fact, there's a swale.

But the hole does, in fact, play uphill - especially from the lower tee (which is rarely used) and the new back tee (which is often used).

And it's a very good hole.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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