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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #125 on: June 02, 2020, 05:51:03 PM »
Gravity doesn't look for rakes. Every superintendent should let me walk across the roof of his car before he questions the destruction my feet can do.


Go for it. You have to climb up there first, though.




I can assure you that getting off is the issue. Good call.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #126 on: June 02, 2020, 06:01:04 PM »
Even in my younger and very fit days... i don't recall walking in any sand that I didn't leave big prints in. Unless it was wet I suppose, but same is true now in my much larger form.

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #127 on: June 02, 2020, 08:55:30 PM »
Gravity doesn't look for rakes. Every superintendent should let me walk across the roof of his car before he questions the destruction my feet can do.


Go for it. You have to climb up there first, though.


Rob Marshall,


Not sure when you played it but those bunkers have always been accessible from one side or the other. Now they have stair cases, too, and have for years. If a caddy needed to pull you out, it sounds like you walked up the face... which... why?


Kyle,
I played the first or 2nd year the course was open. The bunker was at least 10 feet deep. The hole is completely flat from what I remember. The bunker front left dropped from the edge of the green down the ridge towards the 4th fairway. There was no easy access into or out of the bunker that I saw. Not doubting you but the I would have thought the caddies would have pointed it out.


BTW, Iíve been playing this game for 46 years. Thanks for telling me youíre not supposed to walk in an out from the face. Never knew that.....
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #128 on: June 03, 2020, 09:42:51 AM »
We can add Fireworks to the list of pain in the ass things that are toast. Rakes, unmanned comfort stations, golf teams and now fire works. Of the four I would put the likelyhood of catching covid least likely from a rake. Ranked in order of most missed.


Rakes
Comfort stations
Golf teams
Fire works


Back when I was a trusted municipal official putting on the 4th of July fireworks was one of my duties. They are expensive, stupid and loud...in that order. Pre-covid I could see them every night from my home in Orlando. They will not be missed.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #129 on: June 03, 2020, 12:27:14 PM »
We can add Fireworks to the list of pain in the ass things that are toast. Rakes, unmanned comfort stations, golf teams and now fire works. Of the four I would put the likelyhood of catching covid least likely from a rake. Ranked in order of most missed.


Rakes
Comfort stations
Golf teams
Fire works


Back when I was a trusted municipal official putting on the 4th of July fireworks was one of my duties. They are expensive, stupid and loud...in that order. Pre-covid I could see them every night from my home in Orlando. They will not be missed.


Security companies should rule the day in the short to mid term. There will be big business in keeping people out and away from things that are now taboo because of the virus.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #130 on: June 03, 2020, 06:13:27 PM »
In seeking purity and simplicity, I've continued my experiment of hitting the ball as it lies from un-raked bunkers.  I am no longer a good bunker player as my up and downs are trending toward zero.  Funny, I am beginning to feel better about myself.  And though I try to tippy-toe in and out, I haven't mastered the zen of not leaving foot prints.  Baby steps.

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #131 on: June 03, 2020, 07:32:52 PM »
In seeking purity and simplicity, I've continued my experiment of hitting the ball as it lies from un-raked bunkers.  I am no longer a good bunker player as my up and downs are trending toward zero.  Funny, I am beginning to feel better about myself.  And though I try to tippy-toe in and out, I haven't mastered the zen of not leaving foot prints.  Baby steps.


Soon you will, if you try hard enough, reach the true zen state of not keeping track...of your bunker play, or your score.


Then you can focus on the real joy of golf, hitting good shots from bad places.


Or not.


 ;D
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #132 on: June 03, 2020, 07:39:51 PM »
The truth of the situation is that with rakes we played the ball as we found it thus occasionally having bad lies. With the rakes removed we have agreed to improve our lie in the bunker. Once again a new rule has made the game easier.


Nothing has been done in my lifetime to make the game harder with one exception. Harder to win possibly given all this modern talent you guys seem to see all over the place.

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #133 on: June 04, 2020, 12:27:57 PM »
Plus, you no longer get splinters.
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #134 on: June 07, 2020, 03:54:38 AM »
I have only played one course since the lockdown...Cleeve Cloud.  The bunkers are a complete mess.  Footprints galore, ful of unseen rocks and sheep shit everywhere. I don't like it, but there aren't many bunkers so its fine...I mean I shouldn't really like a bunker...should I? However, I would hate to come across that situation on a course with 50 bunkers and deep faces. 

I don't like idea of having to import any sort of different sand to support no rakes. 

Ciao

I have now played two courses since the lock down. It is night and day between the ultra soft and heavy sand at Cleeve Cloud compared to finer sand at Burnham. It's possible to foot rake at Burnham, not so much at CC. Of course, part of the comparison equals out due to much higher bunker lips at Burnham. Getting caught in a serious footprint would cause grief for most golfers. That said, a very easy solution is to allow a drop outside the sand for a 1 shot penalty. The decision making on to play or drop would be cool.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Blackmoor, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend & Alnmouth

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #135 on: June 07, 2020, 04:13:25 AM »
I have now played two courses since the lock down. It is night and day between the ultra soft and heavy sand at Cleeve Cloud compared to finer sand at Burnham. It's possible to foot rake at Burnham, not so much at CC. Of course, part of the comparison equals out due to much higher bunker lips at Burnham. Getting caught in a serious footprint would cause grief for most golfers. That said, a very easy solution is to allow a drop outside the sand for a 1 shot penalty. The decision making on to play or drop would be cool.
Ciao
+1 on the one shot penalty drop.
And the decision on whether to take it or play on would indeed be cool.
Atb

James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #136 on: June 07, 2020, 12:40:58 PM »
Iím doubting myself here reading all of these comments, but isnít it the case that most UK courses didnít have rakes until relatively recently.  Iím pretty sure it was a rare occasion to play somewhere that had rakes when I started playing in the 80s.  Am I wrong? 


This thread reads as if weíd be going back to the dark ages if they donít reappear soon.  Seems to me that whatís changed is that people have forgotten (or perhaps never learned if theyíre under 40) how to smooth bunkers with their feet.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #137 on: June 07, 2020, 01:40:21 PM »
The way a slippery slope works we will soon be moving balls out of divots.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #138 on: June 07, 2020, 03:06:54 PM »
Iím doubting myself here reading all of these comments, but isnít it the case that most UK courses didnít have rakes until relatively recently.  Iím pretty sure it was a rare occasion to play somewhere that had rakes when I started playing in the 80s.  Am I wrong? 


This thread reads as if weíd be going back to the dark ages if they donít reappear soon.  Seems to me that whatís changed is that people have forgotten (or perhaps never learned if theyíre under 40) how to smooth bunkers with their feet.



That's right James.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #139 on: June 07, 2020, 03:14:34 PM »
The way a slippery slope works we will soon be moving balls out of divots.



Is man naught but an animal? Do I not get relief from the scrapes of such pesky beasts? A pith on your lowly lamentation.  ;)

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #140 on: June 07, 2020, 03:19:05 PM »
Perhaps it is different elsewhere, but in my 50 years in the game, I don't remember a course with bunkers that didn't have rakes.  The closest was one in Arkansas where the owner and management company weren't on the same page and corners were cut on maintenance, with the bunkers taking much of the hit.  The members solved the problem in the short run by rolling the ball to a smooth spot after testing for the amount of sand under the lie (some kept a rake in their personal cart), then bought the club for pennies and redid the bunkers.     

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #141 on: June 07, 2020, 03:27:07 PM »
The way a slippery slope works we will soon be moving balls out of divots.



Is man naught but an animal? Do I not get relief from the scrapes of such pesky beasts? A pith on your lowly lamentation.  ;)
aye, but those crafty buggers have (  ) humans out of the animal kingdom by definition, but only as it applies to golf :D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2020, 11:21:53 AM »
The way a slippery slope works we will soon be moving balls out of divots.

I've been advocating this for years, if we're one step closer, its a step in the right direction.

P.S.  Jon W, undoubtedly man is the foulest beast of them all...  ;)

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #143 on: June 10, 2020, 02:24:37 PM »
Rakes are in the bunkers as of today at my course in UPSTATE NY. The real upstate, not Westchester ........
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #144 on: June 10, 2020, 02:31:08 PM »
Rakes are in the bunkers as of today at my course in UPSTATE NY. The real upstate, not Westchester ........

Well, it was great while it lasted.   ;) ;D
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #145 on: June 24, 2024, 05:51:39 AM »

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #146 on: June 24, 2024, 11:20:01 AM »
A splendid read! - https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/feature/cleary-if-bunkers-are-hazards-why-do-we-rake-them-609082 - enjoy.
atb


Any article with both "fair dinkum" and "hoick" in it is a winner in my book!


Valid points... but it will require a major club, two or three, or a Tour to embrace this practice, to get people to even consider it. Even Pine Valley rakes its bunkers these days (occasionally)... or?


Might be a novel concept for one tournament. On LIV, the PGA Tour or whatever the Hogan Tour is called today. That's a non-Major tournament I'd be sure to watch.


Another possibility is to use rakes that furrow a bit.


Another might be to use local sand instead of importing it half way across the country. The old Southern Hills bunker sand was notorious for its irritating qualities.


Great ideas from the author, but bunker-sand perfection isn't going to die an easy death... though I do have an idea... which I'll keep to myself for now. ;)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2024, 11:25:26 AM by Tony Ristola »

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #147 on: June 24, 2024, 11:35:41 AM »
"Another possibility is to use rakes that furrow a bit."

This was tried in the 2006 Memorial tournament.  Thread here:  https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23746.100.html

According to Michael Kim all the players hated it a high profile player threatened to not come back if they kept up this policy.  https://www.golfmagic.com/tour/pga-tour/pga-tour-pro-jack-nicklaus-do-again-and-im-never-coming-back




Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunkers sans Rakes
« Reply #148 on: June 24, 2024, 12:02:12 PM »
"Another possibility is to use rakes that furrow a bit."

This was tried in the 2006 Memorial tournament.  Thread here:  https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23746.100.html

According to Michael Kim all the players hated it a high profile player threatened to not come back if they kept up this policy.  https://www.golfmagic.com/tour/pga-tour/pga-tour-pro-jack-nicklaus-do-again-and-im-never-coming-back
Not surprised by the reaction. I recall the players whining about the sand at Southern Hills in the 90's. Nick Price told his fellow competitors... they're hazards, you're not supposed to be in them (paraphrasing).


Jack Nicklaus is one individual who could have said to the field, well... that's the way it's going to be. If you don't like it, don't come back.




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