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David_Tepper

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But Dublin isn't very far away. ;)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/66744858

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2023, 02:43:52 PM »
The BBC did manage to show a photo of a Portmarnock golf course, but I seriously doubt that's the one being considered. The 16th at Portmarnock GC is a par 5. Such a poorly written article. The club held the Amateur Championship in 2019, so it was not excluded from staging R&A events, but as implied, the Open might have been more problematic prior to the admission of ladies as full members.


The problem is that getting in and out of Portmarnock would be a nightmare. Maybe they should consider running a boat from Sutton like they did in the early days.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2023, 02:51:31 PM by Dónal Ó Ceallaigh »

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2023, 04:31:08 PM »
Just the risk of exchange rate movements would be enough to worry the R&A about an Irish Open Championship.
Cave Nil Vino

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2023, 06:11:26 PM »
The BBC did manage to show a photo of a Portmarnock golf course, but I seriously doubt that's the one being considered. The 16th at Portmarnock GC is a par 5. Such a poorly written article. The club held the Amateur Championship in 2019, so it was not excluded from staging R&A events, but as implied, the Open might have been more problematic prior to the admission of ladies as full members.


The problem is that getting in and out of Portmarnock would be a nightmare. Maybe they should consider running a boat from Sutton like they did in the early days.


Aside from the wrong photograph (16 on the hotel course), there’s nothing poorly written about the article: It’s just regurgitated - but factual - blurb from The Telegraph article.


The club was excluded from hosting R&A events, like all other male-only clubs. It was just that the 2019 Amateur had been awarded to it before the R&A introduced their exclusions (in 2014 if I recall correctly).

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2023, 08:32:20 PM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2023, 09:06:56 PM »
Why go to Royal Melbourne when you have access to a field north of Dallas? In my opinion, going to a great Australian venue would give the USPGA the identity it longs for. Bet it would just be the PGA and not USPGA worldwide.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2023, 03:29:15 AM »
Doesn't seem a very well written article. Oh well, at least the author doesn't refer to holding the 'B......' Open in Dublin.
atb

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2023, 03:39:55 AM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

Why not work on making the Australian Open more of what it should be? Why hope for outside agencies to bring their party to your house?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2023, 05:52:53 AM »
Wonder if the R & A would ever consider having the Open over two courses for the first two days.


Double the field- More income.



Old Course & New Course
St Georges & Princes
Birkdale & Hillside
Dunluce & other one forget its name
Troon & Prestwick (or Portland)
Carnoustie & Burnside.


Lytham, Hoylake don't tick the box. Turnberry probably does not. Muirfield could duel with Gullane??


Remember they started doing this with the Amateur championship..

A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2023, 11:13:06 AM »
The BBC did manage to show a photo of a Portmarnock golf course, but I seriously doubt that's the one being considered. The 16th at Portmarnock GC is a par 5. Such a poorly written article. The club held the Amateur Championship in 2019, so it was not excluded from staging R&A events, but as implied, the Open might have been more problematic prior to the admission of ladies as full members.


The problem is that getting in and out of Portmarnock would be a nightmare. Maybe they should consider running a boat from Sutton like they did in the early days.


Aside from the wrong photograph (16 on the hotel course), there’s nothing poorly written about the article: It’s just regurgitated - but factual - blurb from The Telegraph article.


The club was excluded from hosting R&A events, like all other male-only clubs. It was just that the 2019 Amateur had been awarded to it before the R&A introduced their exclusions (in 2014 if I recall correctly).


Perhaps you're right Ally. I'd just prefer they write an article where the main headline was based on a fact rather than "I think they are seriously looking at it".

Peter Sayegh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2023, 01:57:17 PM »
Wonder if the R & A would ever consider having the Open over two courses for the first two days.


Double the field- More income.



Old Course & New Course
St Georges & Princes
Birkdale & Hillside
Dunluce & other one forget its name
Troon & Prestwick (or Portland)
Carnoustie & Burnside.


Lytham, Hoylake don't tick the box. Turnberry probably does not. Muirfield could duel with Gullane??


Remember they started doing this with the Amateur championship..
 



Adrian,I love this idea.
But I wonder if the first two rounds would be viewed on TV by anyone-especially the US audience.
Think the Pebble Beach Pro-Am. Four hours of switching coverage from multiple courses to see either a made putt or an exceptional shot.
No "intimacy" with that type of broadcast. For a lot of us Yanks, it's nice to see panoramas not within our grasp.

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #11 on: September 11, 2023, 06:47:41 PM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

Why not work on making the Australian Open more of what it should be? Why hope for outside agencies to bring their party to your house?

Ciao


Because to bring a field to Australia remotely close to the one a major championship would bring would cost perhaps 50-100 million dollars in appearance fees. In no world can Australia afford anything remotely close to that.
The majors are great in part because they don't have the encumbrance of paying fees - and agent's commissions.
And these guys make so much money now, why bother to come to Australia for a million dollars?
Rory passed on Hilton Head and it cost him $3 million.


Years ago - the 60s and 70s - when it was a really good field Nickaus, Palmer and Player regularly played as a part of a deal IMG negotiated with Dunlop/ Slazenger to play their clubs in Australia. Palmer's deal with Dunlop - and the royalties he earned on clubs sold with his name on them - was one of his biggest at the time. (Back when the Australian dollar was worth more than the US dollar)


Can you imagine a world where Rory, Rahm and Hovland ditched Callaway and Taylor Made for a couple of weeks to play another brand of clubs - and ball?  Bruce Devlin, a Spalding player in the US, played Slazenger - their biggest competitor - in Australia.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2023, 07:21:41 PM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
Why would they? It's the U.S. PGA. It's not the "worldwide PGA" or something. Plus, they probably make a lot more money hosting it in the U.S. anyway.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2023, 08:56:12 PM »
Erik, More money? I guess the last place not driven by money is college football. Someday they will blow up the traditional conferences. Just wait.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2023, 09:03:39 PM »
Erik, More money? I guess the last place not driven by money is college football. Someday they will blow up the traditional conferences. Just wait.
;D
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2023, 02:10:25 AM »
Mike Clayton -

It is interesting that the Australian Open in tennis was elevated to one of the 4 "majors" decades ago and still has no problem attracting the best players in the world every January for that event and the couple of tournaments that lead up to it.

Somehow the same thing never quite happened for golf there.

DT

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2023, 03:54:30 AM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

Why not work on making the Australian Open more of what it should be? Why hope for outside agencies to bring their party to your house?

Ciao


Because to bring a field to Australia remotely close to the one a major championship would bring would cost perhaps 50-100 million dollars in appearance fees. In no world can Australia afford anything remotely close to that.
The majors are great in part because they don't have the encumbrance of paying fees - and agent's commissions.
And these guys make so much money now, why bother to come to Australia for a million dollars?
Rory passed on Hilton Head and it cost him $3 million.


Years ago - the 60s and 70s - when it was a really good field Nickaus, Palmer and Player regularly played as a part of a deal IMG negotiated with Dunlop/ Slazenger to play their clubs in Australia. Palmer's deal with Dunlop - and the royalties he earned on clubs sold with his name on them - was one of his biggest at the time. (Back when the Australian dollar was worth more than the US dollar)


Can you imagine a world where Rory, Rahm and Hovland ditched Callaway and Taylor Made for a couple of weeks to play another brand of clubs - and ball?  Bruce Devlin, a Spalding player in the US, played Slazenger - their biggest competitor - in Australia.

I know you pine for Australian glory days and in some ways I do as well. I don't think it's realistic that the USPGA or the R&A should be the vehicle for that resurgence. To be honest, even in the best days, the Oz Open was not nearly equivalent to a major. To expect that to happen now is really pie in the sky thinking. However, I do think the Oz Open could be a very important and entertaining stop on a world tour.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2023, 05:50:19 AM »
Wonder if the R & A would ever consider having the Open over two courses for the first two days.


Double the field- More income.



Old Course & New Course
St Georges & Princes
Birkdale & Hillside
Dunluce & other one forget its name
Troon & Prestwick (or Portland)
Carnoustie & Burnside.


Lytham, Hoylake don't tick the box. Turnberry probably does not. Muirfield could duel with Gullane??


Remember they started doing this with the Amateur championship..

So for an extra two days.
Double the no of grandstands?
TWO TENTED VILLAGES????
Logistical probles of getting 2X fans in and out?


Yep I'm sure they've run the calculator over this and if they keep jacking the price up, it may yet happen.  ;D ;D

However of your examples only Princes and Hillside are long enough for the 'flat bellies'.  But they seem willing to do "work" on the Old Course(and its immediate neighbours), so why not the others?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2023, 07:20:41 AM »
Mike Clayton -

It is interesting that the Australian Open in tennis was elevated to one of the 4 "majors" decades ago and still has no problem attracting the best players in the world every January for that event and the couple of tournaments that lead up to it.

Somehow the same thing never quite happened for golf there.

DT


The Australian Open was always a major - in part because Australia along with the US had the best players in the world. It was a very poor cousin to the other three until they build a new stadium,changed surfaces from grass to hardcourt and hired a friend of mine, Paul McNamee as tournament director who did an amazing job running and promoting the event.
It never happened to golf because we never had the best players in the world or the historic designation as one of the four major championships.

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2023, 07:25:42 AM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

Why not work on making the Australian Open more of what it should be? Why hope for outside agencies to bring their party to your house?

Ciao


Because to bring a field to Australia remotely close to the one a major championship would bring would cost perhaps 50-100 million dollars in appearance fees. In no world can Australia afford anything remotely close to that.
The majors are great in part because they don't have the encumbrance of paying fees - and agent's commissions.
And these guys make so much money now, why bother to come to Australia for a million dollars?
Rory passed on Hilton Head and it cost him $3 million.


Years ago - the 60s and 70s - when it was a really good field Nickaus, Palmer and Player regularly played as a part of a deal IMG negotiated with Dunlop/ Slazenger to play their clubs in Australia. Palmer's deal with Dunlop - and the royalties he earned on clubs sold with his name on them - was one of his biggest at the time. (Back when the Australian dollar was worth more than the US dollar)


Can you imagine a world where Rory, Rahm and Hovland ditched Callaway and Taylor Made for a couple of weeks to play another brand of clubs - and ball?  Bruce Devlin, a Spalding player in the US, played Slazenger - their biggest competitor - in Australia.

I know you pine for Australian glory days and in some ways I do as well. I don't think it's realistic that the USPGA or the R&A should be the vehicle for that resurgence. To be honest, even in the best days, the Oz Open was not nearly equivalent to a major. To expect that to happen now is really pie in the sky thinking. However, I do think the Oz Open could be a very important and entertaining stop on a world tour.

Ciao


The worst thing ever was for Jack Nicklaus in Hobart after he won the 1971 Aust Open was to describe it as "the 5th major"
It clearly never was and it was said for the edification the local press and the problem was we fell for it.
I think however it would do the USPGA good to move it around the world on occasion and - as the Australian Open tennis did - elevate itself to the level of the other three majors.

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2023, 07:28:58 AM »
Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
Why would they? It's the U.S. PGA. It's not the "worldwide PGA" or something. Plus, they probably make a lot more money hosting it in the U.S. anyway.


Maybe - except the state government in Victoria paid $30 million for the Presidents Cup. Imagine what they would pay for a major.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2023, 08:52:05 AM »

Ref Aussie Open .....
Wasn't Hogan told by someone (Sarazen/Armour?) that he'd never be regarded as a true great unless he won The Open? So he got on a boat and the rest is history.
Prick some ego .... "Hey Rory/Rahm/Brooks etc you'll never be considered a truly great player until you've won at Royal Melbourne".
????
atb

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2023, 04:33:26 PM »

Ref Aussie Open .....
Wasn't Hogan told by someone (Sarazen/Armour?) that he'd never be regarded as a true great unless he won The Open? So he got on a boat and the rest is history.
Prick some ego .... "Hey Rory/Rahm/Brooks etc you'll never be considered a truly great player until you've won at Royal Melbourne".
 ??? ?
atb


Different world now!
But Seve is the only player to have won at St Andrews, Augusta and Royal Melbourne.
MacKenzie's favourite course, his best-known course and his best course.

Darragh Garrahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2023, 05:26:04 AM »

Went down a rabbit hole on the 1971 results Mike- who is the man named 'N Mizuno'? Great name for a golfer.

Given the USPGA seem have neither the foresight nor the will to occasionally bring their championship to the Southern Hemisphere then perhaps The Open could come south of the equator?
They all take about 'growing the game' but surely this would be truly doing something to nurture it?

Why not work on making the Australian Open more of what it should be? Why hope for outside agencies to bring their party to your house?

Ciao


Because to bring a field to Australia remotely close to the one a major championship would bring would cost perhaps 50-100 million dollars in appearance fees. In no world can Australia afford anything remotely close to that.
The majors are great in part because they don't have the encumbrance of paying fees - and agent's commissions.
And these guys make so much money now, why bother to come to Australia for a million dollars?
Rory passed on Hilton Head and it cost him $3 million.


Years ago - the 60s and 70s - when it was a really good field Nickaus, Palmer and Player regularly played as a part of a deal IMG negotiated with Dunlop/ Slazenger to play their clubs in Australia. Palmer's deal with Dunlop - and the royalties he earned on clubs sold with his name on them - was one of his biggest at the time. (Back when the Australian dollar was worth more than the US dollar)


Can you imagine a world where Rory, Rahm and Hovland ditched Callaway and Taylor Made for a couple of weeks to play another brand of clubs - and ball?  Bruce Devlin, a Spalding player in the US, played Slazenger - their biggest competitor - in Australia.

I know you pine for Australian glory days and in some ways I do as well. I don't think it's realistic that the USPGA or the R&A should be the vehicle for that resurgence. To be honest, even in the best days, the Oz Open was not nearly equivalent to a major. To expect that to happen now is really pie in the sky thinking. However, I do think the Oz Open could be a very important and entertaining stop on a world tour.

Ciao


The worst thing ever was for Jack Nicklaus in Hobart after he won the 1971 Aust Open was to describe it as "the 5th major"
It clearly never was and it was said for the edification the local press and the problem was we fell for it.
I think however it would do the USPGA good to move it around the world on occasion and - as the Australian Open tennis did - elevate itself to the level of the other three majors.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT - R&A "Seriously" Looking At Staging The Open Outside Of The UK?
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2023, 11:36:53 PM »
I think however it would do the USPGA good to move it around the world on occasion and - as the Australian Open tennis did - elevate itself to the level of the other three majors.
Some already put it on that level. It has the strongest field of any of the majors, after all. No aged champions, no amateurs who had a good day or two… etc.

Also, again, it's the U.S. PGA. They're not going to "move it around the world." That makes no sense at all. They serve and are members of the United States PGA. Not the Spanish PGA, or the German PGA, etc.
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

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