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...but I've yet to see any scholarly work that show that slow play is the result of individuals...
Everyone knows everything if you’re only interested in confirming your own priors. The influences on pace of play are extremely complex, and that does include individuals, but they suddenly become very simple when you’re looking to blame the group in front of you.
So you disagree with the scholarly work that you say doesn't show a problem with individuals. Good!
Quote from: Matt Schoolfield on September 08, 2023, 04:30:08 PM...but I've yet to see any scholarly work that show that slow play is the result of individuals...Five to six hour rounds happen, and my clubs end up being much cleaner than they started.
Quote from: Garland Bayley on September 08, 2023, 10:59:40 PMSo you disagree with the scholarly work that you say doesn't show a problem with individuals. Good!The reason why this is frustrating for me, the entire point that I’m trying to make, is that of all the inputs that can contribute to a slow round, the ones that matter the most and the ones that we have the most control over, is carry capacity and tee time intervals. Yes, player speed does matters, but there isn’t club that doesn’t encourage ready golf, there isn’t a player that doesn’t know they should be mindful, and ultimately players pace is out of our control. Under ideal conditions, one or two slow players should not slow the whole day. The reason why they do is exactly the other issues involved. We best work on factors we can control before focusing on a few players who are probably just trying to have a good time.
It takes only one slow group (or even one slow player) to mess up the day for every group behind them. I have found two general categories of slow players: (1) those who do not realize that they are slow and will make an effort to speed up if pointed out to them and (2) those who realize and do not care and/or rationalize the problem away. My sense is that only peer pressure/club culture can have any effect on the second category. I have never been paired up with anyone except Americans who fall into either category.Ira
I alluded to this on the other thread but it's more on topic here. There is a ton of apologism for the current state of the golf business here and perhaps of the lack of a culture-driven approach. Slow play is caused by individuals and businesses catering to individuals. We've lost the plot of what it means to be on a golf course and a social game where there is an expectation to behave in a manner appropriate to the whole. Etiquette used to have an entire section devoted to "right-of-way" on the golf course and how the single player (or a group of a single players sharing a tee time) had no precedence over organized games. "Matches" are whatever format a group comes up with that makes them feel better about themselves often times at the expense of golf rules and pace of play. Playing through when appropriate and possible is all but GONE from the culture and the expectation has become that the faster group should skip ahead instead of "bothering" the group that is playing slower (not necessarily slow, because it's the relative pace that matters here). We become constrained by all these "studies" that have little grounding in reality and only look good on spreadsheets. The studies only serve to protect the tee time space and the so-called revenue generating it represents. That may keep financial cost down to the golfer, but I'd gladly pay a little more if I could finish an hour sooner.
My college kids played a course that had the thickest crap you'd ever want to see on a golf course (often down both sides), and pace of play was very quick (for a college event - 4:15 to 4:30, walking, with rain off and on) because… if you hit your ball offline, you knew it was gone, so you didn't bother searching for it. You dropped (red PA) or re-hit (OB) and played on.Bill Yates pointed out that water hazards don't really slow the pace of play down because the result is often definitive - if you see a splash, you don't look for the ball. You drop and keep moving.
Anything that makes the course harder will generally cause play to be slower.Anything that makes you pause and think will cause the course to play slower.But if you don't want boring golf courses, you've got to have some tolerance for this. Exactly how much tolerance will depend on the individual user.