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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2023, 08:12:56 AM »
Its coming up to Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere.
Leaf fall and the total pain that is searching for golf balls in leaves will be upon us pretty soon.
atb


Thomas-Many courses in the U.S. have addressed the issue with large commercial leaf blowers using both mower/tractor attachments and walk behind models.

Erik J. Barzeski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2023, 10:32:02 AM »
This is the problem. You've seen it for SO long that "4:15-4:30" is now VERY quick. It's not. First step is getting to a place where that time is an average tournament round.
I played 18 holes in 2:35 the other day. We were a twosome, both shot in the low 70sÖ etc. But still.

4:15 is pretty fast for a foursome of college kids competing in a tournament playing the rules and an unfamiliar course and hitting cups. Seeing as how the standard pace of play is generally 4:00 to 4:30 for daily play, I don't think it's unreasonable to say 4:15 is pretty fast. I've heard of and seen college events that took six hours. 4:15 is very quick. Could it be faster still? Sure. But suggesting that college golfers in tournaments should play in 4:15 regularly will be regarded by many as so silly that it's easily dismissed.

My main point was that ball searches (i.e. which are partly controlled by course setup) can have a tremendous influence on pace of play. Golfers in a tournament are FAR less likely to waive a group through when they're looking for a ball or doing anything else that takes awhile (like waiting on a ruling or something).
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2023, 10:39:48 AM »
Its coming up to Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere.
Leaf fall and the total pain that is searching for golf balls in leaves will be upon us pretty soon.
atb
Thomas-Many courses in the U.S. have addressed the issue with large commercial leaf blowers using both mower/tractor attachments and walk behind models.
Thatís good to know Tim.
Lots of time and effort, machinery needs, fuel usage etc and thus money needed though. Be better not having the damn trees on the course in the first place, especially deciduous ones that drop their leaves. And then there are all the other tree related considerations like pace of play, sword quality, shade and air circulation, blocked drains etc. I canít help but agree with Bobby Jones paraphrased quote they ďthere should be no place for trees on a golf courseĒ. Sports pitch vrs arboretum experience.
Atb

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2023, 10:48:39 AM »
Its coming up to Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere.
Leaf fall and the total pain that is searching for golf balls in leaves will be upon us pretty soon.
atb
Thomas-Many courses in the U.S. have addressed the issue with large commercial leaf blowers using both mower/tractor attachments and walk behind models.
Thatís good to know Tim.
Lots of time and effort, machinery needs, fuel usage etc and thus money needed though. Be better not having the damn trees on the course in the first place, especially deciduous ones that drop their leaves. And then there are all the other tree related considerations like pace of play, sword quality, shade and air circulation, blocked drains etc. I canít help but agree with Bobby Jones paraphrased quote they ďthere should be no place for trees on a golf courseĒ. Sports pitch vrs arboretum experience.
Atb


Double Post-Sorry!
« Last Edit: September 22, 2023, 10:51:47 AM by Tim Martin »

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2023, 10:50:35 AM »
Its coming up to Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere.
Leaf fall and the total pain that is searching for golf balls in leaves will be upon us pretty soon.
atb
Thomas-Many courses in the U.S. have addressed the issue with large commercial leaf blowers using both mower/tractor attachments and walk behind models.
Thatís good to know Tim.
Lots of time and effort, machinery needs, fuel usage etc and thus money needed though. Be better not having the damn trees on the course in the first place, especially deciduous ones that drop their leaves. And then there are all the other tree related considerations like pace of play, sword quality, shade and air circulation, blocked drains etc. I canít help but agree with Bobby Jones paraphrased quote they ďthere should be no place for trees on a golf courseĒ. Sports pitch vrs arboretum experience.
Atb


Thomas-I played recently at a Dev Emmet course in the metro NY area and was told that the clubís long range goal was to cull every conifer on the property which seemed pretty ambitious based on their size and number.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2023, 10:50:45 AM »
Its coming up to Autumn in the Northern Hemisphere.
Leaf fall and the total pain that is searching for golf balls in leaves will be upon us pretty soon.
atb
Thomas-Many courses in the U.S. have addressed the issue with large commercial leaf blowers using both mower/tractor attachments and walk behind models.
Thatís good to know Tim.
Lots of time and effort, machinery needs, fuel usage etc and thus money needed though. Be better not having the damn trees on the course in the first place, especially deciduous ones that drop their leaves. And then there are all the other tree related considerations like pace of play, sword quality, shade and air circulation, blocked drains etc. I canít help but agree with Bobby Jones paraphrased quote they ďthere should be no place for trees on a golf courseĒ. Sports pitch vrs arboretum experience.
Atb
« Last Edit: September 22, 2023, 10:52:39 AM by Tim Martin »

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2023, 11:39:02 AM »
This is the problem. You've seen it for SO long that "4:15-4:30" is now VERY quick. It's not. First step is getting to a place where that time is an average tournament round.
I played 18 holes in 2:35 the other day. We were a twosome, both shot in the low 70sÖ etc. But still.

4:15 is pretty fast for a foursome of college kids competing in a tournament playing the rules and an unfamiliar course and hitting cups. Seeing as how the standard pace of play is generally 4:00 to 4:30 for daily play, I don't think it's unreasonable to say 4:15 is pretty fast. I've heard of and seen college events that took six hours. 4:15 is very quick. Could it be faster still? Sure. But suggesting that college golfers in tournaments should play in 4:15 regularly will be regarded by many as so silly that it's easily dismissed.

My main point was that ball searches (i.e. which are partly controlled by course setup) can have a tremendous influence on pace of play. Golfers in a tournament are FAR less likely to waive a group through when they're looking for a ball or doing anything else that takes awhile (like waiting on a ruling or something).


I play a lot of tournaments. Some the college kids play in. I don't disagree, but you're making my point. We've DEvolved over time with pace of play. Cmon with the ball searches. Here's the problem with that .. it's not that rampant, but it happens. Here's the fix (and I've watched and suffered through it 1000 times) .. teach the kids that if you've searched, taken your 3 minutes, that it's YOUR responsibility to make up that time .. and now. They've been taught to never waiver from their painstaking pre-shot routine. Sometimes you have to adjust, and they just don't do it anymore. The game is more important than selfish pre shot crap that they're NOT entitled to in a pace situation. They've been taught that it's ok .. take your time, etc, etc. Let's start teaching the opposite. Making the blame on lost balls and rulings is just wrong. It's easy to make up time time if you're taught it's your responsibility (with urgency). For those who think 4:15 is "silly," well, I know those types too ... and they're just flat out wrong. Simple evolution from the powers that be to start teaching pace.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2023, 12:20:05 PM »
The game is more important than selfish pre shot crap


Itís a game. I try to remind myself that itís a game and itís supposed to be fun. Letís try not to lose sight of that.
Building an encyclopedia of golf courses that anyone can edit: Golf Course Wiki
Some strong opinions on golf: Wigs on the Green
I really think golf culture should be more like beer culture than wine culture

Mike Wagner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How Does Architecture Affect Slow Play
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2023, 12:38:11 AM »
The game is more important than selfish pre shot crap


Itís a game. I try to remind myself that itís a game and itís supposed to be fun. Letís try not to lose sight of that.


It's the greatest game ever created .. and extremely fun. No one's losing sight of that. Watching pre shot routines that are tediously slow, however, is not fun.

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