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archie_struthers

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Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« on: September 01, 2023, 11:01:52 AM »
 ??? ???


I don't

cary lichtenstein

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2023, 09:03:51 PM »
it always does, high rough, narrow fairways
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mark Pearce

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2023, 02:26:06 AM »
it always does, high rough, narrow fairways
They're playing on a US Open course?

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2023, 02:44:26 AM »
I always think it is odd that the Ryder Cup in Europe is often played at resort style courses, perhaps bult by Nicklaus or Arnold Palmer or one of the Jones'.

In the old days it used to go to Walton Heath or Southport or even Lytham. I would think playing more traditional English or Scottish courses might benefit them more..... but then again they obviously haven't really needed many additional advantages considering the US hasn't won overseas in 30 years. Of course I also realize you have to take it to Italy and Spain and other places.

I'm sure the answer is probably $$$ anyway.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2023, 05:01:39 AM »
I always think it is odd that the Ryder Cup in Europe is often played at resort style courses, perhaps bult by Nicklaus or Arnold Palmer or one of the Jones'.

In the old days it used to go to Walton Heath or Southport or even Lytham. I would think playing more traditional English or Scottish courses might benefit them more..... but then again they obviously haven't really needed many additional advantages considering the US hasn't won overseas in 30 years. Of course I also realize you have to take it to Italy and Spain and other places.

I'm sure the answer is probably $$$ anyway.


Almost always of late the courses have been built by European Golf Design, hardly surprising as it is co-owned by the European Tour. Italy isnít overburdened with classic courses like Walton Heath or Lytham. The selection of European Ryder Cup venues has _nothing_ to do with the course and _everything_ to do with money and geography
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

JLahrman

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2023, 09:09:42 AM »
These guys play the same tour and the same courses, and they play them in the same style. In the 1980s and 1990s maybe the courses could be set up to favor the home side, but I think that's gotten harder to pull off anymore. How do you set up the course to suit Rahm, Hovland, and McIlroy better than Koepka, Scheffler, and Thomas? You'd have to really split hairs.

Ryan Van Culin

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2023, 04:12:35 PM »
Does any course suit Justin Thomas right now?

JLahrman

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2023, 05:06:46 PM »
Does any course suit Justin Thomas right now?


I mean his style of play of course. Back when the European players were winning all the Masters titles and Open championships, and the American players were winning the PGA Championships and US Opens, it was a lot clearer which style of course and course setups favored each team. But these guys are all playing the same way anymore.

archie_struthers

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2023, 07:48:23 PM »
 8)


Good point that they all play the same anymore. Hit it high and far and gouge it out if you miss. Makes architecture for the very best golfers in the world tough to do. Probably the reason most of our best GCA's worry about it less than most of us.


For years the Euro's seemed to play the links golf better, with an array of shots that aided their cause in the Ryder Cup as much as the team spirit they always seemed to exhibit. I'm looking forward to watching it for sure. Generally compelling event.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2023, 03:08:19 AM »
8)

Good point that they all play the same anymore. Hit it high and far and gouge it out if you miss. Makes architecture for the very best golfers in the world tough to do. Probably the reason most of our best GCA's worry about it less than most of us.

For years the Euro's seemed to play the links golf better, with an array of shots that aided their cause in the Ryder Cup as much as the team spirit they always seemed to exhibit. I'm looking forward to watching it for sure. Generally compelling event.

The RC has not been played on a links since Lytham in 1977, when there were no Europeans, it was still GB&I, and has not been on a Golden Age course on this side of the pond since Walton Heath in 1983.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2023, 05:21:02 AM by Adam Lawrence »
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2023, 09:28:16 AM »
The RC has not been played on a links since Lytham in 1977, when there were no Europeans, it was still GB&I, and has not been on a Golden Age course on this side of the pond since Walton Heath in 1983.


That is true, and unfortunate, but the courses could still be set up with wider fairways and shorter rough.

Jason Topp

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2023, 01:16:13 PM »
Not sure if I Commented on the other thread, but this course looks miserable for everyday play based on videos from Peter Finch and No Laying Up.  The normal rough looks incredibly punishing.  The deep rough appears effectively out of bounds. 


I assume the Euros have data that shows such a setup is to their advantage.  It seemed to be an advantage in France. 

Wayne_Kozun

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Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2023, 02:40:46 PM »
The selection of European Ryder Cup venues has _nothing_ to do with the course and _everything_ to do with money and geography[/size]
Agreed, but it is interesting to note that the RC has not been held in England since 2002. There will be at least 29 years between RCs in England as 2027 is at Adare Manor.

It seems not that long ago that The Belfry was the semi-permanent Euro site for the RC.

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2023, 03:38:32 PM »
The selection of European Ryder Cup venues has _nothing_ to do with the course and _everything_ to do with money and geography
Agreed, but it is interesting to note that the RC has not been held in England since 2002. There will be at least 29 years between RCs in England as 2027 is at Adare Manor.

It seems not that long ago that The Belfry was the semi-permanent Euro site for the RC.


Europe is a big place, and the UK hosted a lot of Ryder Cups in the event's first seventy-odd years. Now obviously there weren't any Europeans involved for most of those years, but it's still not hard to think of European countries that might get a little miffed if it went back to the UK before it went to them.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Does anybody know if the architecture favors the Euros ???
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2023, 09:38:33 PM »
The selection of European Ryder Cup venues has _nothing_ to do with the course and _everything_ to do with money and geography
Agreed, but it is interesting to note that the RC has not been held in England since 2002. There will be at least 29 years between RCs in England as 2027 is at Adare Manor.

It seems not that long ago that The Belfry was the semi-permanent Euro site for the RC.


Europe is a big place, and the UK hosted a lot of Ryder Cups in the event's first seventy-odd years. Now obviously there weren't any Europeans involved for most of those years, but it's still not hard to think of European countries that might get a little miffed if it went back to the UK before it went to them.
True, but golf is a pretty minor sport in most of the continent, is it not?  I imagine that the reason that the RC is being hold in places like France and Italy is that the courses are paying up for the prestige that it will bring the course that will allow them to increase green fees to tourists from golfing countries like the UK and US.  Did we ever have a host country of the RC not having any players?  We had that in France, and now again in Italy.
How long before we see an RC in Saudi Arabia?

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