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Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2023, 01:51:08 AM »
The OB that got in my head was left of 18 green at Carnoustie. Over cook an approach just a bit and it rolled right there.
It definitely got to me  :D
Isn't that what Van de Velde was conscious of when he played his 2 iron approach and why he went right?  I recall Dave Pelz having a video explaining his playing the 18th the way he did.  Which is hard to explain IMO as a big error was not chipping back into the fairway after his drive right.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2023, 08:31:17 AM »

If the definition of Intenral Out of Bounds is that a part of the course is out of bounds when playing a differ to hole, Oakmont and many others have IOB.  The holes on one side of the turnpike are out of bounds when playing the ones on the other side. Most course that have holes on opposite sides of a public road have that. I donít consider that Internal OB.  Neither do I consider parts of the property that are not holes such as driving ranges and clubhouses.



This makes total sense -- so if you hit it across the road on accident you don't play back over the road deliberately and cause more danger.  But I do not remember ever seeing it as a local rule on a scorecard, at Oakmont or anywhere else.


The discussion reminded me that the 14th hole at Sterling Farms [where I grew up] is OOB when playing the 13th, a par-5 which doglegs around 14.  I was actually remembering it backwards, because the 14th is a par-4 where you have to drive it between two ponds, and there would be some temptation to play that shot to another fairway also, but there's no option that really helps on that one.

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2023, 10:33:59 AM »
There is no internal out of bounds at Hoylake!


The practice ground lies in the middle of the course but it is not a part of the course. It is an entirely separate piece of ground and is appropriately marked as OOB. That the club owns both pieces of ground is completely irrelevant.


True internal OOB is an entirely artificial construct where both sides of the line are part of the course and in play. On older courses it is normally imposed for H&S reasons. On newer courses it is a sign of a flawed or incompetent design.


Thank you! Maybe for the next Open they can put a temporary tennis court and swimming pool so that some folks understand the concept of a normal OB area. Or sell the driving range to a separate entity. :-)

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2023, 10:42:50 AM »
Itís interesting the divergence of opinion on what constitutes out of bounds versus internal out of bounds. I have no dog in the fight but regardless of the media outlet virtually every one is referring to ďinternal out of boundsĒ as it relates to Holyoke.

Kyle Harris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2023, 10:46:27 AM »
Itís interesting the divergence of opinion on what constitutes out of bounds versus internal out of bounds. I have no dog in the fight but regardless of the media outlet virtually every one is referring to ďinternal out of boundsĒ as it relates to Holyoke.


Because it's triggering.

How many article titles have the word "controversial"?

According to whom?
http://kylewharris.com

Constantly blamed by 8-handicaps for their 7 missed 12-footers each round.

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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2023, 10:54:30 AM »
Itís interesting the divergence of opinion on what constitutes out of bounds versus internal out of bounds. I have no dog in the fight but regardless of the media outlet virtually every one is referring to ďinternal out of boundsĒ as it relates to Holyoke.


Because it's triggering.

How many article titles have the word "controversial"?

According to whom?


Kyle-I appreciate the reply and agree the word ďcontroversialĒ is contained in pretty much every piece on the subject that Iíve seen.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2023, 11:12:55 AM by Tim Martin »

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2023, 11:23:07 AM »
Itís interesting the divergence of opinion on what constitutes out of bounds versus internal out of bounds. I have no dog in the fight but regardless of the media outlet virtually every one is referring to ďinternal out of boundsĒ as it relates to Holyoke.


Because it's triggering.

How many article titles have the word "controversial"?

According to whom?


After I played Royal Portrush I sent them an email asking why they had it. It's in the middle of a field of fescue. The response I got said that it was "controversial" and had been discussed many times but they never really gave me a reason for it.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2023, 11:52:46 AM »
I don't understand why some are implying OOB should only be there if they don't own the property.  Yes that can be one reason why something is OB, but certainly not the only one.








David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2023, 12:16:12 PM »
Itís interesting the divergence of opinion on what constitutes out of bounds versus internal out of bounds. I have no dog in the fight but regardless of the media outlet virtually every one is referring to ďinternal out of boundsĒ as it relates to Holyoke.
When I played Paraparaumu Beach in New Zealand about 12 or 13 years ago they painted a white line between #9 and #1 (they go in opposite directions with their right sides adjacent) which indicated out of bounds.  It wasn't really an issue on #1 but very much came into play on #9 as the right side was the preferred angle and being out-of-bounds right was a very good angle.  Both holes were excellent, especially #9.  It looked pretty rinky-dink on what is otherwise a great course but they must have thought it was needed for safety reasons, the only thing between the holes was rough.


 I don't know if they still do it but I would consider that an example of true internal out of bounds.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2023, 05:15:38 PM »
The right side of the 1st hole on Bethpage Black is out of bounds from the middle of the rough separating it from the Green course. It is to protect those who are playing the 1st hole on the Green course as some players will 'fade' it a bit too far and end up in the Green's fairway. They will then attempt to get on the 1st green of the Black by playing directly over the 1st green of the Green Course. It remains OOB during all tournaments held on it.


Phil, pretty sure itís not OB for regular play. Iíve spent my share of time over there (never intentionally) and Iíve never seen white stakes, nor have I ever seen anyone else who accidentally goes over there (and there are many) ever think to re-tee or do anything other than play it as it lies. But for tournaments, yes, absolutely it is staked.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Rob Marshall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2023, 11:00:38 PM »
The right side of the 1st hole on Bethpage Black is out of bounds from the middle of the rough separating it from the Green course. It is to protect those who are playing the 1st hole on the Green course as some players will 'fade' it a bit too far and end up in the Green's fairway. They will then attempt to get on the 1st green of the Black by playing directly over the 1st green of the Green Course. It remains OOB during all tournaments held on it.


Phil, pretty sure itís not OB for regular play. Iíve spent my share of time over there (never intentionally) and Iíve never seen white stakes, nor have I ever seen anyone else who accidentally goes over there (and there are many) ever think to re-tee or do anything other than play it as it lies. But for tournaments, yes, absolutely it is staked.


Wasnít OB when Iíve played there. Guy in my group played it that way. Doesnít really make sense with the angle you get into the green.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2023, 01:06:50 AM »
The original Dowie seems like a really interesting hole. Anyone know of the concept being replicated anywhere?


American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Internal Out of Bounds at Hoylake
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2023, 09:14:32 PM »
If the pros are filling up the OB, I would hate to practice on a regular day. Seems like balls would be coming at you from all angles.

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