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I believed the USGA changed their rules when the NCAA did so that there would not be a conflict between the two sets of rules. Amateur golfers of any age can receive NIL compensation.
I assume Stewart Hagestad could profit over the NIL as much as he would want if he found someone that wanted to pay.
Quote from: Daryl David on June 24, 2023, 09:06:31 PM I assume Stewart Hagestad could profit over the NIL as much as he would want if he found someone that wanted to pay.It appears under the previous post he has to be on an NCAA team.
No, those are the rules for collegiate golfers. If you’re not a collegiate golfer, your actions don’t have to comply with NCAA rules. All amateur golfers can accept NIL deals.https://www.golfdigest.com/story/usga-ra-amateurs-rules-change-2021/amp
So you could make tens of millions for NIL by doing ads, etc. But teach a lesson for $50 any you lose amateur status?Does that make sense?
They should get rid of the whole amateur - pro thing. It is a 19th century class artifact that no longer makes any sense. The big Am competitions should then become U22 competitions, which they pretty much are anyway.
Quote from: Wayne_Kozun on June 25, 2023, 11:30:58 AMSo you could make tens of millions for NIL by doing ads, etc. But teach a lesson for $50 any you lose amateur status?Does that make sense?It does to me.Take J.R. Smith, for example. He could make a bunch of money on endorsement deals… while still not having done anything of note to be a "professional golfer" or a "golf professional." Or look at some of the golf influencers: should they be classified as pros?The dividing line is what you're making your money from. You can't make your money directly from golf (as in prize money, or teaching a lesson), but if you're just "famous" or "attractive" or whatever, and you happen to also play golf, then you're being paid for being famous/attractive/whatever with golf as the background. In J.R. Smith's case, it's barely even that.Quote from: Wayne_Kozun on June 25, 2023, 11:30:58 AMThey should get rid of the whole amateur - pro thing. It is a 19th century class artifact that no longer makes any sense. The big Am competitions should then become U22 competitions, which they pretty much are anyway.And the mid-am? There are also plenty of state and city/local amateur championships. Should local PGA pros and mini-tour players and so on be eligible for them, too? Don't you think participation by actual amateurs might decline if that was the case?
I am fine with PGA pros and mini-tour players playing in Mid-Am events. Many PGA teaching pros are not as good as top level amateurs. I have played in Pro-Am events at my club where the Pros were local club pros, often assistant or associate pros, where several of them would shoot in the mid 80s.
You can be paid for advertising anything. As of 2022 you are an amateur golf unless you do one of the following:All golfers are amateurs unless they:Accept a prize that is not allowed under Rule 3: Prizes,Play in a golf competition as a professional,Accept payment or compensation for giving instruction that is not allowed under Rule 4: Instruction,Are employed (including being self-employed) as a golf club or driving range professional, orHold membership of an association for professional golfers.An amateur who takes any of these actions becomes a non-amateur and remains a non-amateur until being reinstated as an amateur (see Rule 5: Reinstatement as an Amateur Golfer).
Help me understand something. I just saw Gordon Sargent on a FootJoy commercial. His ability to be a college golfer but also be sponsored by FootJoy is due to the newish NCAA rules around "Name, Image, and Likeness" or NIL. My question is, how can he play in a USGA event as an amateur, yet be sponsored by Footjoy and be compensated based on his golf abilities. Shouldn't he be considered a professional under USGA rules?If Gordon Sargent can be sponsored by Footjoy yet retain amateur status, why can't career amateurs such as Stewart Hagestad be sponsored/endorsed?I guess I don't get it? Lawyers of GCA (actual and clubhouse) please help me out.
It used to be that caddies and club makers were deemed professionals too, which made no sense.
My opinion only. OEM support (free equipment, heavily discounted equipment) and NIL (actual cash payment) is fantastic for the game of golf for numerous reasons:It grows the game. Junior golf, college golf and amateur golf are extremely expensive to play, particularly at the highest levels that require high entry fees, air travel, hotels, rental cars. Easily can cost $25-50k/year, depending on which tournaments are played and where the player is located. For parents of juniors who cannot work from the road, the missed work is a huge additional expense.Major golf OEMs began supporting highly ranked junior golfers over a decade ago, and that dynamic has accelerated in recent years with all major OEMs sending reps to bigger junior tournaments. Heavily discounted and/or free equipment is extremely helpful to families, particularly as juniors and college players need to update their equipment often as they develop, grow, get stronger. For high level amateurs, the retail cost of a premium driver with a Ventus shaft is about $950 - that is a single club in the bag. Premium irons are $200 per club. Putters can be $300+ each. Golf balls are $50-60/dz. Gloves are $25 each. Shoes are $150 per pair. Range balls at a public course can be $10 per bucket. Green fees, membership dues are prohibitive for many families.When junior, collegiate and amateur players align themselves with equipment companies, they have extra incentive to conduct themselves well as they are representing a brand. This adds to maturity and responsibility.When it comes to NIL, there is a big difference between being a star college football player on TV every weekend to being a top college golfer with minimal recognition. There may be exceptions for the top 1 or 2 professional golf prospects, but these dollars are fairly small. If you're in college and have to play 5-7 big independent amateur events every year, how are they supposed to pay for this? Usually it is the parents still helping out. From what I understand, very, very few amateur golfers receive actual cash payments right now, and those that do are relatively small dollars.The USGA is beginning a program for juniors called the U.S. National Development Program to help provide access and financial support to top young players. This is a fantastic idea, and should be great for the game of golf. https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/usndp-home-page.html In a world where the lines are already blurred between amateur and professional (what % of this week's US Mid Am field are reinstated pros? what % of international athletes attending U.S. colleges receive support from their home countries?), providing the ability for top players to offset enormous costs to play the game seems like a very healthy step, particularly if we can all agree that growing the game as widely as possible should be the goal.Just one opinion, I know many others will disagree.