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Malcolm Mckinnon

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Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« on: May 19, 2023, 12:07:11 AM »
I used to go to the Rochester, NY area every year with my daughter who competed in equestrian sports for the Stuart Horse Trials. It was a major event in Victor, NY south of the city.


Since I was in the area I had access to and played golf at Oak Hill. I have played the West course twice and the East course once.


This was prior to their major renovations on the East Course recently.


Oak Hill has 36 holes of golf. The west course was left as Donald Ross originally designed it. I was amazed at the the contours of the green complexes. They rose and fell like angry seas much like golf course greens which are laid on natural links land, and rise and fall in crazy fashion.


The Championship " East" course greens had been worked on by "open doctors" over the years to the point that they were fast and subtle. Tillinghast, Fazios et al. had neutered them. Now they were boring.


They are saying that they brought the East Oak Hill golf course greens back to the Donald Ross designs. I'm not seeing that on TV but TV is not accurate  I'm planning a trip back to see for myself.


Also want to see Country Club of Buffalo while up there, Donald Ross, Yummy! Have access there too.








Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2023, 12:25:57 AM »
Sorry, I said Tillinghast when I meant to say Robert Trent Jones.


Screwed things up at Oak Hill to a fair the well.....

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2023, 01:05:42 PM »
Iíve only played at Oak Hill once in 1990.  We got two rounds on East and one round on West.


At age 20 I did not know much, but I could see that:


The East course got too much attention nationally and from the green committee projects to retain its status as a championship venue.


The West Course was a charmer and seemed to not have been reworked like its sibling.  The way the club house was situated it almost seemed like someone planned for West to be the favored venue.


As to the greens watching yesterday, it seemed like the pins as always were close to edges but on flatter areas than usually found on perimeters of classic greens.  I wonder if that was intentional as Andrew Green expanded the greens at Waynesborough CC and those extensions are flatter that the internal portions of the greens.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2023, 09:22:30 PM »
Hi Mike!


How is your dad, Pete? I was at St. Davids a few years ago and asked about him and he had recently retired.


I figured that I would not get many responses on this post as Oak Hill is a bit out of most peoples bucket list and also able to have access.


I like what I see regarding the tree removal there as well as returning the course to it's Donald Ross roots, but I loved the greens on the west course so much. So much fun!! Wish professional Golf would tolerate eccentric green complexes like those of UK links courses.


Best,


Malcolm








« Last Edit: May 20, 2023, 09:28:57 PM by Malcolm Mckinnon »

Malcolm Mckinnon

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2023, 09:38:06 PM »
And I Have to say this.


The people of Rochester, NY are fantastic sports fans! Of all the horse trials we participated in, Stuart, South of Rochester in Victor, NY was by far the most fun. Huge crowds of spectators came out! It was the greatest!

Rob Marshall

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2023, 10:01:32 PM »
And I Have to say this.


The people of Rochester, NY are fantastic sports fans! Of all the horse trials we participated in, Stuart, South of Rochester in Victor, NY was by far the most fun. Huge crowds of spectators came out! It was the greatest!


The PGA was packed today. The ALMOST CONSTANT rain didnít keep many people away. Great golf town.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Tim Martin

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2023, 05:38:46 AM »
And I Have to say this.


The people of Rochester, NY are fantastic sports fans! Of all the horse trials we participated in, Stuart, South of Rochester in Victor, NY was by far the most fun. Huge crowds of spectators came out! It was the greatest!


There was a statement from the shotgun start podcast that at the Masters people wear their best Cypress Point and Fishers Island gear and at Oak Hill everyone wears their best Buffalo Bills tee shirt/sweatshirt.

Mike_Trenham

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2023, 05:42:10 AM »
Agree The PGA of America will have some tough decisions to make as this looks like a pretty successful championship however the May date makes this not the ideal location.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

John Blain

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2023, 08:11:03 AM »
Agree The PGA of America will have some tough decisions to make as this looks like a pretty successful championship however the May date makes this not the ideal location.
It was a wildly successful event in every aspect and I can't imagine them not coming back. There was not one negative comment from anyone about the course and the community support is off the charts. They are hosting the '27 US Amateur and I would be shocked if the PGA Championship wasn't coming back in 10 years.

Rob Marshall

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2023, 09:18:54 AM »
Agree The PGA of America will have some tough decisions to make as this looks like a pretty successful championship however the May date makes this not the ideal location.
It was a wildly successful event in every aspect and I can't imagine them not coming back. There was not one negative comment from anyone about the course and the community support is off the charts. They are hosting the '27 US Amateur and I would be shocked if the PGA Championship wasn't coming back in 10 years.


Only issue could be the weather. BUT I didn't hear any of the players complain about it. Weds was brutally cold. Sat was miserable. The weather wasn't great for the 2 senior PGA's that were held in May. Like John said the community support is off the charts. I was there ALL day on Sat and the crowd was huge. Rochester is an amazing gold town. Supported the LPGA like no other town also.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.Ē Jimmy Buffett

Bill Crane

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2023, 12:43:24 PM »
Malcolm:  Glad you started this thread.   

Watched quite  bit of the PGA since last Friday and frankly, I was struck by how many putts, even fairly long ones had VERY modest breaks for an old Donald Ross, golden age course.   Maybe I missed them, but I noticed none of those big swooping putts you invariably see on this type of course.
You have to question how much softening of original features is done during these big extensive and expensive high profile renovations.
Bill


_________________________________________________________________
( s k a Wm Flynnfan }

Kalen Braley

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2023, 01:35:03 PM »
Agree The PGA of America will have some tough decisions to make as this looks like a pretty successful championship however the May date makes this not the ideal location.
It was a wildly successful event in every aspect and I can't imagine them not coming back. There was not one negative comment from anyone about the course and the community support is off the charts. They are hosting the '27 US Amateur and I would be shocked if the PGA Championship wasn't coming back in 10 years.

John,

I'm guessing if you ask John Rahm about the course or several other players about the new 15th green there would certainly be some negativity.  I thought the course looked terrific overall outside of those goofy, overgrown, sponge bunker faces. 

I do wonder why a hole like 14 isn't seen more often, but perhaps its just too severe for the average joes?

Edward Glidewell

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2023, 05:58:44 PM »
I do wonder why a hole like 14 isn't seen more often, but perhaps its just too severe for the average joes?


Strangely enough, the 14th hole actually reminded me a bit of a hole at Myrtle Beach, built by an amateur architect (I think a professional helped with the routing) -- the 7th at Tidewater.


It's 360 from the back tees, but of course it could be played up to be potentially driveable. The green is elevated (although I don't think nearly as much as Oak Hill) and fronted by bunkers. It's certainly not on the level of the hole at Oak Hill East (which probably goes without saying), but it came to mind watching the PGA.




Ronald Montesano

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2023, 02:41:09 PM »
Oak Hill will have whichever top event (PGA or Open) that it wishes. 36 holes, massive amount of property, staff that knows how to run a major event, city that has no other top-tier professional sports, Syracuse and Buffalo within 90 minutes either way.

As we know, US Am is usually a precursor to US Open ... guess what? 2031 has not been announced for US Open.
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Philip Caccamise

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Re: Oak hill West Course vs East Green complexes
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2023, 04:29:40 PM »
Oak Hill will have whichever top event (PGA or Open) that it wishes. 36 holes, massive amount of property, staff that knows how to run a major event, city that has no other top-tier professional sports, Syracuse and Buffalo within 90 minutes either way.

As we know, US Am is usually a precursor to US Open ... guess what? 2031 has not been announced for US Open.


I would be very surprised if the US Open returns, even with the US Amateurs sprinkled in there. Oak Hill has been connected with the PGA since the Ryder Cup in '95. The USGA has stated they are going to a limited rotation of courses.


A lot of talk about the weather, naturally so, but it was warmer there than at my house in Southern California 3 of the 4 tournament days. If this May gray holds for a few more weeks it could be a chilly mornings US Open.

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