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Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2023, 09:49:20 PM »
When Troon was running Old Works they eliminated the benches and claimed it knocked 30 minutes off a round of golf.
LOCK HIM UP!!!

MKrohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2023, 12:08:43 AM »
When Troon was running Old Works they eliminated the benches and claimed it knocked 30 minutes off a round of golf.


Standing around on one of the par 3s the other week, I asked one of the boys what happened to the benches, he said "they were removed, the board said that it added to round times".


I snorted and said BS, at least I now have somewhere to find the source.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2023, 01:41:05 AM »
Generally against clutter such as benches, but in the right spots with a good view, a few on a course are ok.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Clyne, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate & Ladybank

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2023, 02:27:32 AM »
Generally against clutter such as benches, but in the right spots with a good view, a few on a course are ok.

Ciao


Sean has the answer.


I dislike course furniture and would generally be against benches. But if I can recommend a spot where the bench is relatively hidden from general view, maybe three times a round on holes where there can be waiting, then I see the advantages.


The bench at The Eden is an abomination. But people wait there so it makes sense. Plus itís St.Andrews. Itís more like a statement of ďhow great is this?Ē

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2023, 03:27:45 AM »
The occasional old railway sleeper laid across a couple of uprights is fine at the top of a high tee.
Formal manmade slatted or customised benches, ugg. And if they are wood as most are they'll likely have to be taken into the sheds in the winter and varnished etc which is yet more work for the greenkeeping crew.
atb

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2023, 10:27:20 AM »
Jason:


This is an interesting topic.  Thanks for bringing it up.


Likewise, my client at Stonewall, Jack May, took me aside at the opening of the North course and said, "I'm going to plant a few shade trees near the tees on some of these holes.  When you get older, you'll appreciate the shade."  He was right.  I have since pointed out to several clients that we need to do something for shade over the course of 18 holes.


Shade is a great addition to a bench.  I find myself missing the tree-lined days merely for the ocassional relief from the sun.  Tee areas are a great place to do it as long as sun hits the teeing ground.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2023, 10:46:10 AM »
An old thread on benches. I am too lazy to repost pictures.https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67647.0.html
Not sure how anyone could play a course with carts and cart paths and then find benches visually objectionable.

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2023, 11:13:24 AM »
An old thread on benches. I am too lazy to repost pictures.https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,67647.0.html
Not sure how anyone could play a course with carts and cart paths and then find benches visually objectionable.


Thanks John!  Who knew that a thread about benches could expand my vocabulary.  I learned the word "Ovine."


John's thread has some terrific pictures - highly recommended.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2023, 11:14:00 AM »
I played a couple of hilly courses that only allowed walking with a caddie. An occasional bench would have been nice. I find it difficult to believe that a few benches on the course add 30 minutes to a round.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2023, 11:26:39 AM »
Not to get this topic off course, but shouldn't the same question be asked about ballwashers?  I know many courses have eliminated them as clutter.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2023, 11:44:23 AM »
"Not to get this topic off course, but shouldn't the same question be asked about ballwashers?  I know many courses have eliminated them as clutter."

While I don't consider myself "pro-clutter," I have a hard time understanding the anti-clutter sentiment regarding benches, ball washers and trash baskets.

Some times golf is played under very hot & humid conditions. What is wrong with having a shade tree and a bench to take a breather every 4 or 5 holes? Some times golf is played when the turf is soft/damp/muddy. What is wrong with having a ball washer every 2nd or 3rd hole?

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2023, 11:52:12 AM »
Not to get this topic off course, but shouldn't the same question be asked about ballwashers?  I know many courses have eliminated them as clutter.


I am not pro ballwasher but do not oppose them.  One needs to pick his battles.


While a good wash in a well-maintained ballwasher is a pleasure, many people will have done any necessary cleaning on the prior green rendering them redundant.   I have no problem with eliminating ballwashers in the name of eliminating clutter. 

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2023, 12:16:30 PM »
Its hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.

I know a few times we wanted to take a break and just enjoy the day.  So we found a bench and let the group behind us play thru, it was relaxing and the group behind usually appreciates it.  Everyone wins!

MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2023, 03:23:32 PM »
When I first started playing golf on a little nine-hole farmland course back in 1971 I viewed these little man-made accouterments such as benches, ball-washers, tee markers, and even flagsticks not as clutter but more as little thoughtful, helpful guide posts to help the traveler on his journey, even proviidng rest and respite as needed.


We've all seen it overdone, sometimes atrociously so, but let's not throw out the benches with the (artificial) bluewater.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 08:00:27 AM by MCirba »
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

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Cal Carlisle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2023, 03:56:53 PM »
Memorial benches (or trees, or water fountains, etc.) have real staying power. Good luck putting away the memory of Uncle Ralph.

Matt Schoolfield

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2023, 04:37:04 PM »
Not to get this topic off course, but shouldn't the same question be asked about ballwashers?  I know many courses have eliminated them as clutter.


I am not pro ballwasher but do not oppose them.  One needs to pick his battles.


While a good wash in a well-maintained ballwasher is a pleasure, many people will have done any necessary cleaning on the prior green rendering them redundant.   I have no problem with eliminating ballwashers in the name of eliminating clutter.
I'm certainly not anti-bench or anti-ball washer, but I can see the other side of the argument. I think design really has a lot to do with it. There aren't any companies that are making custom ball-washers that suit the aesthetic of the course. I think a course willing to make their own custom tee markers ought to consider adding the same thought to ball washers and benches.

I also think that a lot of the design problems have to do with the ex ante approach to golf course development, that is to say, the developers just put benches where they might think they are needed before players actually display a need for them (developing a golf course in an a posteriori fashion would be worthy of it's own thread). Thus, benches are often placed in inappropriate areas, even if they ought to be usable (much like how desire paths pop up next to slightly inefficient sidewalks), they won't be, and they will seem like clutter.

If designers put cameras out and watch where players stand at wait at the tees after a year of play, then place benches where folks tend to mill about, they'll likely find benches well-used, even if they may seem slightly out-of-place when viewed in a photograph.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 04:39:02 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
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Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2023, 07:32:57 PM »
Itís hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.


Kalen- Itís just another hipster overreaction. The audacity of anyone wanting to sit down on a hot day while they wait to play their shot. ::)  If properly placed how does it slow down the round?!
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 08:39:16 PM by Tim Martin »

JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2023, 07:34:43 PM »
Benches might imply mostly CARTS, since the players would have their bench with them.
True walkers really want to sit down every now and them, and the next tee is the perfect place.


Jack Nicklaus said you should never sit down while playing. Now that Iím old, I agree as Iím stiffer when I get up.  Dornoch has benches at a number of holes, but the only one Iím ever tempted by is the one half way up the hill from 6 to 7. ;)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 07:54:43 PM by JohnVDB »

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2023, 07:42:12 PM »
Is there a scarlet letter for the seat attachment on a clicgear?

Max Prokopy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2023, 09:17:01 PM »
I like benches and don't get any argument about "man made" visuals or so-called artificial impediments to a round.


Flagsticks are fiberglass, flags and your bags are nylon, clubs are metal/graphite/rubber, you've got towels and balls and drinks so really what the heck are we worried about a bench for? 

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2023, 09:21:03 PM »
Its hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.

I know a few times we wanted to take a break and just enjoy the day.  So we found a bench and let the group behind us play thru, it was relaxing and the group behind usually appreciates it.  Everyone wins!


I must say, that in thousands of rounds of golf, it never occured to me to sit down with my group like that.


I can't fathom it.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2023, 01:56:48 AM »
Itís hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.


Kalen- Itís just another hipster overreaction. The audacity of anyone wanting to sit down on a hot day while they wait to play their shot. ::)  If properly placed how does it slow down the round?!


Kalen just slowed the entire course by 8 minutes by sitting down to let the next group go through.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2023, 03:29:29 AM »
Itís hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.


Kalen- Itís just another hipster overreaction. The audacity of anyone wanting to sit down on a hot day while they wait to play their shot. ::)  If properly placed how does it slow down the round?!

It's funny to be called a hipster 😎. Anyone who has met me would know otherwise.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Clyne, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate & Ladybank

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2023, 05:08:46 AM »
Itís hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.


Kalen- Itís just another hipster overreaction. The audacity of anyone wanting to sit down on a hot day while they wait to play their shot. ::)  If properly placed how does it slow down the round?!

It's funny to be called a hipster 😎. Anyone who has met me would know otherwise.

Ciao


I've seen your little pointy beard...
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bring Back the Bench!
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2023, 05:09:38 AM »
Itís hard to understand the anti-bench sentiment.


Kalen- Itís just another hipster overreaction. The audacity of anyone wanting to sit down on a hot day while they wait to play their shot. ::)  If properly placed how does it slow down the round?!

It's funny to be called a hipster 😎. Anyone who has met me would know otherwise.

Ciao


Sean,


I would attest to the fact that you ainít no hipster. Although you could be a GCA equivalent.


Which would best define a GCA hipster:


- Someone who champions the alternative and obscure?


OR


- Someone who champions the touch-points of the Doak / Coore / Hanse design era?



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