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Joe Hancock

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Topography vs. sets of tee markers
« on: June 03, 2023, 10:50:07 AM »
Currently wrapping up a project at Old Town Club, and it never struck me so strongly as here, that the topography really has an effect on how many sets of tee markers fit comfortably (or/and with minimal effort) on a golf course. Iím probably the last person here to have it occur to me in such a way. Thoughts?
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

jeffwarne

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Re: Topography vs. sets of tee markers
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2023, 12:07:25 PM »
Currently wrapping up a project at Old Town Club, and it never struck me so strongly as here, that the topography really has an effect on how many sets of tee markers fit comfortably (or/and with minimal effort) on a golf course. Iím probably the last person here to have it occur to me in such a way. Thoughts?


Great topic.
It's always hard to explain how a much more forward tee, located at a much lower elevation, doesn't always produce the distance advantage results desired.
Often quite hard to convince the parties involved that having a few holes with the tees together isn't a terrible thing, then give them an additional advantage on a later hole where the topography is more suited.
The proportionality police can be brutal,often illogical, and always more expensive.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Topography vs. sets of tee markers
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2023, 02:47:12 PM »
Generally speaking, on any site with decent movement / topography, I just place the tees where they sit in most naturally. The strategy and numbers seem to take care of themselves. So yes, I agree Joe.

Mark_Fine

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Re: Topography vs. sets of tee markers New
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2023, 07:26:49 AM »
Have five active projects right now where the focus is on tees.  Most here wouldnít like it because they arenít believers in multiple teeing locations.  I am a strong advocate of additional tees for a wide range of reasons but as stated above I also like to let topography help dictate location.  Furthermore I rarely if ever build anything but low profile tees that have minimal if any negative visual impact.  On many you would hardy know there is a tee if it didnít have tee markers.  Just build them enough above grade to allow drainage.  Also much easier to maintain.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 09:00:12 PM by Mark_Fine »

Thomas Dai

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Re: Topography vs. sets of tee markers
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2023, 07:59:20 AM »
The relationship between tees and forced carries is important. It's supposed to be fun and looking for lost balls ain't fun.
atb

Matt Schoolfield

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Re: Topography vs. sets of tee markers New
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2023, 02:19:43 PM »
I think there is a lot of philosophical ambiguity in the purpose of separate teeing locations in golf. I think it would be good for the sport if we sort of nailed down the language a bit better. The ambiguity in the statement generally is:

"To make the course harder for better players"

To me, there are three sets of reasons you might have different teeing locations:

1. (Probably the most common idea people have) To allow players with different driving distances to interact with the same set of obstacles off the tee.

2. To make the shot off the tee more difficult/challenging/penal, more challenging angles, tougher (not necessarily longer) carries, etc. E.g. tees that require shot shaping. Tees that send the ball over a hazard instead of rough. Tees that increase the effects of prevailing winds.

3. To create an entirely different hole by changing the distances. E.g. a par 3 becomes a par 4 or 5 from the different location, which should completely change how the hole is played.

The amount of conflation I see with these is, I think, fine, but extremely detrimental to how we ask players to choose teeing locations. The issue here is subtle, but I think it's a heavy contributor to the "distance = skill" mantra that much of our culture suffers from. At the end of the day it becomes extremely difficult to tell someone who hits 275 poorly off the tees, that they should/shouldn't be playing from the back tees, and someone who hits 200 dead center every time to play from the front tees.

Unless we are more deliberate with what we mean by teeing locations, we cannot challenge the 200 yard drive ace unless we create a set of tees that focus on more challenging shots, rather than more distance.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2023, 04:37:54 PM by Matt Schoolfield »
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