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Marty Bonnar

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2023, 10:28:08 AM »
You can’t chase a dream without getting bit. Ain’t no snakes in cubicles.


Scott Adams might disagree…
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2023, 10:35:20 AM »

Some words from a perhaps somewhat fortunate Dr Alister MacKenzie in "Spirit of St Andrews' ......



Rather glad that his ability to design golf courses exceeding his knowledge of Australian snakes!
atb
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 10:41:54 AM by Thomas Dai »

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2023, 10:39:40 AM »
You can’t chase a dream without getting bit. Ain’t no snakes in cubicles.


Scott Adams might disagree…


It appears he disagrees with most if not all my core beliefs.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2023, 10:43:29 AM »
You can’t chase a dream without getting bit. Ain’t no snakes in cubicles.


Scott Adams might disagree…


It appears he disagrees with most if not all my core beliefs.


Yup, quite astonishing.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2023, 10:45:23 AM »
On a lighter note, an old colleague of mine rather succinctly described me as being the ‘guy in charge of trees and grass and shit’.
I was quite pleased!
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2023, 11:14:47 AM »

Chased by weapon-wielding youths.

Do tell !

We were refurbing an old playground near a particularly ‘rough’ neighbourhood, when a small group of the local gang noticed us and decided they weren’t very happy with our presence. A couple of thrown rocks later along with some threatening language and stick-rattling, we decided a hasty retreat was the best defence!
Funny to think only a few years earlier they would have been our target audience for the play facility!
F.


Marty,

Not to say you missed out, but you kinda did.  Working on same project here in the states that woulda been knives and guns instead of just a few harmless rocks  (Think the rock throwing scene from Braveheart)  ;)

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2023, 11:25:28 AM »
You may have knives and guns but we have Monty Python.
I was more thinking:
“I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal-food-trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.”
 :D
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2023, 11:27:06 AM »
You may have knives and guns but we have Monty Python.
I was more thinking:
“I don’t want to talk to you no more, you empty-headed animal-food-trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.”
 :D
F.


Ha ha, perfect retort!  ;D

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2023, 01:38:49 PM »
Jeff:
The Cowboys site must have been crawling with snakes. Of the probably 10 snake encounters of my life, 5 were on that (very excellent) course. Attending the rattlesnake roundup in Sweetwater as a 5 year old left an impression: I dislike snakes greatly.


Mike,


Yes, one of my closest encounters was near where bridge on 5 tee is, as we walked across the dry creekbed.


Will echo that on occasion have been vaguely threatened by some "yutes."  I have stumbled on passed out drug addicts and even a corpse in a golf course restroom on a remodel. 


In China, where they were putting the residents out of their homes to build the new subdivision/golf course, my Chinese hosts "volunteered me" to go speak to a lady who was upset about that (I only know 3 phrases in Chinese) who proceeded to beat me with her broom.  Of course, mosquitoes in that region are scary if you forget to get malaria medicine a few weeks before going.  They laughed at me for being more afraid of mosquitos than snakes.  And, some of the scariest creatures can be customs officers when arriving in a hostile country.  In Vietnam, they called me back to a private room, but after a few tense (to me) minutes, their only request was that I pay the visa fees in cash USD, even for the rest of the team from Japan, which I happily did to get out of there.


Also, wild boar (TX), a rutting moose, timber wolves and mama bears protecting their cubs (MN), and probably some others.  Luckily, only the moose came anywhere near to being hazardous to my health.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2023, 02:06:38 PM »
Moose are not to be trifled with. The hippos of the north!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2023, 02:11:02 PM »

I would think the over/under on getting bitten by snakes or dogs and staying in the business would be about two.

The odds of not getting paid are worse.


MUCH worse, I can testify.  But, like staying in the cubicle, if you haven't wound up working for someone you shouldn't, you weren't trying very hard.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2023, 03:41:11 PM »
Who else has been pee’d on by an owl? Anyone?
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2023, 04:07:08 PM »
Who else has been pee’d on by an owl? Anyone?


 :D :D :D
Okay, you win the Internet today!
Love,
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2023, 04:53:58 PM »
Who else has been pee’d on by an owl? Anyone?


 :D :D :D
Okay, you win the Internet today!
Love,
F.

Marty,

And I was sitting here thinking what could Joe possibly have done to piss off an owl.  :D

P.S. Growing up in the Bay Area outside lunch time in school was always an adventure with swarms of seagulls who were simultaneously trying to steal your lunch, and poop it back on you!  Safe to say there were a handful of unfortunate causalities including my buddy who got hit in the face on one occasion.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #39 on: March 09, 2023, 05:06:04 PM »
You can’t chase a dream without getting bit. Ain’t no snakes in cubicles.

Obviously, you never met the various VPs at one of my places of employment.

PS, Scott Adams published a three comic set from one of my VP stories I sent him.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #40 on: March 09, 2023, 05:10:59 PM »
Who else has been pee’d on by an owl? Anyone?


 :D :D :D
Okay, you win the Internet today!
Love,
F.

Marty,

And I was sitting here thinking what could Joe possibly have done to piss off an owl.  :D

P.S. Growing up in the Bay Area outside lunch time in school was always an adventure with swarms of seagulls who were simultaneously trying to steal your lunch, and poop it back on you!  Safe to say there were a handful of unfortunate causalities including my buddy who got hit in the face on one occasion.


Kalen-We learned as kids to never underestimate the ferociousness of even a single seagull, forget about a swarm. The scene created from just one french fry dropped out a car window at a drive in anywhere near Long Island Sound was sheer mayhem.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2023, 05:14:29 PM »
That humor would not be lost on Scott Adams.

Ian Andrew

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2023, 07:11:04 PM »
Moose are not to be trifled with. The hippos of the north!

Hi Charlie,

I've been around Moose a lot. As long as you avoid the cows with a calf in spring and any Bull during rutting you're relatively safe. They generally don't pay much attention to people. I've even come face to face hiking and at Highlands Links playing golf. They  can barely see so they will come very close before turning away. I think that freaks people out.


But if your referencing the speed, yes they are shockingly fast runners.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 07:28:25 PM by Ian Andrew »
Change is good.

Ian Andrew

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2023, 07:12:24 PM »
The Problem Bear (I have posted this before)

My final project with Carrick Design was called Muskoka Bay. The golf course was carved out of 250 acres of bush and rock with the golf course is strung out over 11 kilometers. The surveyor laid in centerlines for the holes by clearing a 5 wide meter opening from tee to green. This brought the first bear sighting of the project – from a distance.

The next stage was for Doug - and primarily me - to go out and flag out the trees for removal and the trees to be preserved. The tree cutters established paths between holes for access and once again the bear was sighted – on one of the paths. The cutters dropped the trees that were flagged out and the Skidder team followed them in picking up the trees and taking them to the burn piles. After a while the bear found the tree cutters coolers and enjoyed a nice meal. The cutters tied their coolers in the trees, so after a while our frustrated and brazen bear approached the cutters looking for food. Initially they would light up firecrackers to scare the bear away – usually quite effective - but after a few weeks it would not even turn after a firecracker was let off. We now had a problem bear.

The bear took to looking through the parking area for food after finding a meal one day and this caused chaos. When one of the workers was followed right into his truck – everyone was scared – even the tree clearing crew that were used to bears. We all walked in and out of the site from the same location and using the same trails and it unnerved all of us.


At this point one of the site supervisors had enough and took to carrying a shotgun to scare the bear away from the cutters. He wasn’t the only one to carry a gun on the site in the end. The skidder team and cutters worked closer together since the bear didn’t like the skidders – food or no food. The concern became the individuals walking the trails or the site.


My role throughout was to go out into the areas - to be cleared - where only the centre lines were cut so we could flag the full clearing widths along with all the key trees to keep. For perspective – this was thick bush – we yelled back and forth to see where each of us was using a flash of orange jackets for a quick location. With the bear clearly unafraid of humans, the supervisor thought we needed to carry a gun for our safety. Doug was reluctant and chose to stick with his large can of Pepper Spray.

I had one too but always thought that once the bear was close enough to use effectively use the pepper spray – it was more likely he would be scared of by the smell from you shitting your pants – than the pepper spray.  The joke on the site was it was better to walk in pairs with someone you could outrun - or if you were the slow one, the trick was to trip the other guy first and then run away.

Anyway, I carried a shotgun with me for nearly a year – particularly during the times that I was out there by myself - which was most of the time. There was nothing more nerve-racking than when I was certain I saw him on the nearby ridge. It was most nervous I have ever been – safety off the gun – hearing noises everywhere. Imagine your heart beating 100 beats a minute and unable to get reception on the walkie-talkie – all the while wondering why I chose this line of work.

It would be a perfect ending to say I’m writing this in front of the fire with my feet out on my bear skin rug, but the truth is someone else ended up having to kill the bear as it began to venture into town looking for easy food.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 07:29:08 PM by Ian Andrew »
Change is good.

Anthony Butler

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Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2023, 10:24:16 PM »

Some words from a perhaps somewhat fortunate Dr Alister MacKenzie in "Spirit of St Andrews' ......



Rather glad that his ability to design golf courses exceeding his knowledge of Australian snakes!
atb


When I started going to NSW Golf Club in the 70s with my grandfather it was quite common to find brown, tiger and black snakes on the course. In fact his favorite practical joke was to kill either a brown or tiger snake and stick it in his playing partner's bag. By some miracle he made it to 95yrs of age.

I imagine the site would have been absolutely slithering with them when Mackenzie staked out the course in 1926. 

Fortunately, black snakes like to eat brown snakes so it's hard to find anything other than a black snake out at La Perouse these days*  In fact, I saw a very healthy 5-6ft specimen on the 4th hole a couple of weekends ago.

* If you're not aware of the difference between the two snakes...  A brown snake is smaller, but if you get bitten by one, you'd be lucky to make it back to the clubhouse alive.
Next!

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #45 on: March 09, 2023, 11:51:35 PM »
Moose are not to be trifled with. The hippos of the north!

Hi Charlie,

I've been around Moose a lot. As long as you avoid the cows with a calf in spring and any Bull during rutting you're relatively safe. They generally don't pay much attention to people. I've even come face to face hiking and at Highlands Links playing golf. They  can barely see so they will come very close before turning away. I think that freaks people out.


But if your referencing the speed, yes they are shockingly fast runners.


Yes, the speed and size were the main worry. I know they don’t kill hundreds per year like the hippo. I didn’t realize they don’t see well, that might explain some of their apparent fearlessness.


Great story about the bear. I don’t think I would’ve been able to handle that!
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #46 on: March 10, 2023, 05:32:41 AM »
Herbert Fowler is stated as having routed courses on horseback (and there are photos of Mike Strantz atop a horse too).
I wonder how an architects appreciation and perspective of the landscape and its potential would alter if they were positioned an additional 6-8ft above ground level?
Atb


JohnVDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #47 on: March 10, 2023, 08:00:14 AM »
Moose are not to be trifled with. The hippos of the north!


We had a moose visit us during the US Senior Women’s Amateur in Alaska last year. We just stayed out of its way. Fortunately no bears that week.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #48 on: March 10, 2023, 09:05:04 AM »
The midges in the west of Scotland are just brutal.


Niall

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Glamourous Life of a Golf Course Architect
« Reply #49 on: March 10, 2023, 09:59:59 AM »
Herbert Fowler is stated as having routed courses on horseback (and there are photos of Mike Strantz atop a horse too).



Brian Schneider and I had to do that once, to see over sugar cane growing in the fields where the course was to be built.


We both made a compact not to take each other's picture.  ;)

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