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Cliff Hamm

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OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« on: March 10, 2023, 09:49:56 AM »
From the Fried Egg:


“Well, they were testing drivers at Riviera, but I just didn't even want to take the chance,” he said after his first round at TPC Sawgrass. “I just was not comfortable knowing that it could fail—doesn't look good on me, doesn't look good on TaylorMade…. The more a club is used, the more it's hit, the more springy the face becomes.”

Couldn't Rory or any player just request to have their driver tested before a round?

Tom_Doak

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2023, 10:16:11 AM »
Do you mean tested unofficially by TaylorMade?


He was very clear he didn't want to test it officially because he was afraid it might fail and that would cast a shadow on TaylorMade [not to mention his own recent results].

Niall C

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2023, 10:18:41 AM »
Do you mean tested unofficially by TaylorMade?


He was very clear he didn't want to test it officially because he was afraid it might fail and that would cast a shadow on TaylorMade [not to mention his own recent results].


Doesn't it cast an even bigger shadow knowing there might be an issue and not facing up to it ? ie. continuing to play knowing your club might be illegal ?


FWIW from his comments I had assumed that he'd binned the suspect driver but perhaps not.


Niall

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2023, 10:23:58 AM »
From the Fried Egg:


“The more a club is used, the more it's hit, the more springy the face becomes.”




Thanks Rory, therefore no need to ever buy a new Driver. In fact the more I play with my old one the better it becomes!
Note to broker: short TM shares.


 ;)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2023, 10:25:24 AM »
Wait a minute, the drivers get springier and not less springy? Why are equipment people saying you've got to upgrade regularly because of the driver having less "pop"?


Edit: Tony beat me to it.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2023, 10:48:20 AM »
Do you mean tested unofficially by TaylorMade?


He was very clear he didn't want to test it officially because he was afraid it might fail and that would cast a shadow on TaylorMade [not to mention his own recent results].


Yes, couldn’t the manufacturers test it similarly to an official test? Also, if tested before the round, what is the harm? Perhaps, it would bring into question previous results, but if tested regularly it would simply show a level of integrity.  If indeed, all clubs increase the spring affect over usage, it would not cast aspersions on one particular manufacturer.





Buck Wolter

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2023, 11:09:33 AM »
Wait a minute, the drivers get springier and not less springy? Why are equipment people saying you've got to upgrade regularly because of the driver having less "pop"?


Edit: Tony beat me to it.


Might be the Carbon Fiber face on the Taylor Made changes differently than a typical titanium face.
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Jeff Schley

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2023, 11:54:05 AM »
From the Fried Egg:


“The more a club is used, the more it's hit, the more springy the face becomes.”




Thanks Rory, therefore no need to ever buy a new Driver. In fact the more I play with my old one the better it becomes!
Note to broker: short TM shares.


 ;)
Exactly.  ?????
Also agree that saying I didn't want to take the chance ,means that at some point a driver has/would use has failed, or why say it if not possible? Not a good look.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2023, 12:40:44 PM »
I'm curious what the original question was.

Certainly Rory is smart enough to know he shouldn't even bring up a topic like that, he's losing any way you slice it...


P.S.  Perhaps he can ask for far-giveness ;)

JohnVDB

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2023, 01:51:48 PM »
Since the driver he was using is on the conforming list, he could have continued to use it even if it was tested and no longer was within the limits as long as the changes were through normal use.


Quote

4.1a(1)/1 – Wear Through Normal Use Does Not Change Conformity
Normal use includes strokes, practice strokes and practice swings, as well as acts such as removing a club from and replacing a club into the golf bag. If wear through normal use occurs, the player’s club is treated as conforming, and they may continue to use it.
Examples of wear through normal use include when:
   •   Material inside a clubhead has broken loose and may rattle during the stroke or when the head is shaken.
   •   A wear mark has formed on the club’s grip where the thumbs are placed.
   •   A depression is formed on the club face through repeated use.
   •   The grooves on the club’s face are worn.


Therefore there would be no issue with him playing an “illegal” club even if he suspected that it might not pass the test. He chose to take it out because too many people wouldn’t understand this.


As for having it tested, the manufacturers and the tour have the equipment to test clubs for spring-like effect. They all have identical equipment to the ruling bodies so that they can be sure their new clubs will conform before they send it to the ruling bodies for approval

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2023, 01:54:56 PM »
Since the driver he was using is on the conforming list, he could have continued to use it even if it was tested and no longer was within the limits as long as the changes were through normal use.


Quote

4.1a(1)/1 – Wear Through Normal Use Does Not Change Conformity
Normal use includes strokes, practice strokes and practice swings, as well as acts such as removing a club from and replacing a club into the golf bag. If wear through normal use occurs, the player’s club is treated as conforming, and they may continue to use it.
Examples of wear through normal use include when:
   •   Material inside a clubhead has broken loose and may rattle during the stroke or when the head is shaken.
   •   A wear mark has formed on the club’s grip where the thumbs are placed.
   •   A depression is formed on the club face through repeated use.
   •   The grooves on the club’s face are worn.


Therefore there would be no issue with him playing an “illegal” club even if he suspected that it might not pass the test. He chose to take it out because too many people wouldn’t understand this.


As for having it tested, the manufacturers and the tour have the equipment to test clubs for spring-like effect. They all have identical equipment to the ruling bodies so that they can be sure their new clubs will conform before they send it to the ruling bodies for approval




Thanks John! Sort of renders most of this discussion moot.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

John Kavanaugh

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2023, 02:36:58 PM »
This is why I try to buy the Demo. Figure that Taylormade would have the sense to only send out hot demos.

Pat Burke

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2023, 03:25:10 PM »
Sorry


But this sounds like
I’m afraid my driver is illegal, so I won’t test it?


What kind of BS is that


Maybe I misread

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2023, 03:36:17 PM »
Sorry


But this sounds like
I’m afraid my driver is illegal, so I won’t test it?


What kind of BS is that


Maybe I misread




John VDB said that his driver wouldn't be found illegal even if it tested outside the parameters as long as it was already on the conforming clubs list (and had only been used normally).
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

James Reader

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2023, 02:15:27 AM »
Sorry


But this sounds like
I’m afraid my driver is illegal, so I won’t test it?


What kind of BS is that


Maybe I misread




John VDB said that his driver wouldn't be found illegal even if it tested outside the parameters as long as it was already on the conforming clubs list (and had only been used normally).


Are we sure that’s right - at least on the tour?  There were strong rumours that a few players were forced to change drivers a couple of years ago after they failed on-site tests (i seem to remember Xander was one). What would the purpose of the testing at events be if there were no consequences?

Mike Bodo

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2023, 10:05:52 AM »
Why I don't get is that Rory prefers the original Stealth to the Stealth II driver. In fact, he wouldn't take the Stealth I out of his bag to play the Stealth II because he couldn't get it dialed into his specifications. That being the case, why would't he have multiple Stealth I drivers spec'd to his standards at the ready to replace one he thought wouldn't comply with Tour standards? Normally, these guys don't get one of anything from their sponsored equipment manufacturers and have multiple backups in case of emergency.
"90% of all putts left short are missed." - Yogi Berra

Peter Flory

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2023, 03:48:12 PM »
With high end baseball balls (metal), you have to break them in with several hundred hits- they get more springy.  I never realized that it was the same for drivers, but if that is the case, they should lower the initial testing limits to account for it. 

Rob Marshall

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2023, 04:32:03 PM »
With high end baseball balls (metal), you have to break them in with several hundred hits- they get more springy.  I never realized that it was the same for drivers, but if that is the case, they should lower the initial testing limits to account for it.


Peter, I think that is true of the composite bats. A friend who traveled the country playing softball told me that when you got a new bat you tapped it against a telephone pole for a while. He also said they eventually lost the pop and you had to get a new one.
If life gives you limes, make margaritas.” Jimmy Buffett

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2023, 09:23:09 PM »
My guess is the COR coefficient of restitution lowers with use.
If something is perfect it transfers/converts all the input energy to output.
If something is imperfect it transfers less than all the input energy to output.
A trampoline does not propel an acrobat higher than they started unless they are jumping (adding more energy) at the bottom.
Nothing is perfect.
Spongier is softer.
I would guess a driver becomes more conforming over time.
Rory would be better off testing either way.


Aluminum bats seem to behave the same way, there is no physical breaking in period - maybe emotional.


Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Erik J. Barzeski

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2023, 09:45:17 PM »
My guess is the COR coefficient of restitution lowers with use.
I've been told by club manufacturers that it tends to increase a little… until it cracks. Long drive guys, too. The face thins slightly and becomes "bouncier."
Erik J. Barzeski @iacas
Author, Lowest Score Wins, Instructor/Coach, and Lifetime Student of the Game.

I generally ignore Rob, Tim, and Garland.

Jerry Kluger

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2023, 10:30:39 PM »
I really don't care about whether his driver became non-conforming and there is serious doubt that it could - the bigger question to me is why he even brought up the subject. Maybe he thinks that somehow this adds credibility to his position concerning LIV because he has been so outspoken and needs to prove that his self-interests are not the primary motive for his actions. I have always admired Rory and really enjoyed watching him play but he is getting too deep into the weeds with this one.  It is kind of ironic to me that now that smaller no-cut fields are coming next year it is not something which detracts from the credibility of a golf tour.  I should also note parenthetically that I wonder how many of the players in the top 10 after Saturday's five and a half hour round would have even been in the field if it was limited to 70 players.  Oh well, this is just an old SOB venting and I hope I haven't offended anyone. 

Garland Bayley

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2023, 12:52:55 AM »
I really don't care about whether his driver became non-conforming and there is serious doubt that it could - the bigger question to me is why he even brought up the subject. Maybe he thinks that somehow this adds credibility to his position concerning LIV because he has been so outspoken and needs to prove that his self-interests are not the primary motive for his actions. I have always admired Rory and really enjoyed watching him play but he is getting too deep into the weeds with this one.  It is kind of ironic to me that now that smaller no-cut fields are coming next year it is not something which detracts from the credibility of a golf tour.  I should also note parenthetically that I wonder how many of the players in the top 10 after Saturday's five and a half hour round would have even been in the field if it was limited to 70 players.  Oh well, this is just an old SOB venting and I hope I haven't offended anyone.

JERRY! YOU SHOCK ME! You are criticizing RORY! I thought you told me you were his biggest fanboy.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim_Coleman

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2023, 01:43:20 AM »
    It would seem that saying nothing would be preferable. But if he just switched and said nothing, someone would ask him why.  If he said he just liked his old driver better, TaylorMade wouldn’t be happy. So, he came up with something that might actually help them sell more clubs. Three dimensional chess.

Thomas Dai

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Re: OT...Rory fears driver would fail testing
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2023, 04:17:53 AM »
I'm reminded of motor racing and scrutineering. And appeals and claims and ambulance chaser involvement.
atb

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