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Ran Morrissett

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Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« on: June 13, 2018, 11:29:58 AM »
http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/feature-interview-with-nicolas-joakimides/

What are the most rewarding courses you have seen recently, apart from the Oakmonts and Royal Melbournes of the world? More importantly, are there any common denominators?
 
In thinking back, one thing stands out - seeing an architect's work for the first time. Baxter’s Black Mesa, Rod at Cabot, Mike's Wolf Point, Rob's Sweetens Cove, Love in Cabo, Red at Desert Forest, Nipper's Moraine, and Javier Arana in Spain, all have proven quite a treat. If they have their own voice, then you're almost guaranteed to see something fresh/different, by definition. That certainly proved true at those eight.
 
A road map for me has been these Feature Interviews. Stoatin Brae, Sandy Hollow and Todd's Twin Dolphin in Los Cabos are three courses on the radar to see sooner rather than later (add Zac Blair's course in Utah, once it gets built). Along that vein, Joe and I recently took the 'chance' and flew from Spain to Morocco to see if French architect Nicolas Joakimides's work at the Saïdia Resort was as good as the material that he had shared during the course's construction. I am very happy to report that the answer is yes.

Nicolas poured a ton of passion, sweat and thought into the project. He was the one on the excavator, doing a lot of the fairway work and all of the greens. Yes, he still plays golf professionally in Europe but he hopes for a career in architecture. Based on my four loops around his new course, so do I.

Read his Feature Interview and you will see that he strikes all the right chords. Of paramount importance is that the game needs to be fun as it is supposed to be a healthy pursuit, not one of drudgery.
 

Keep the game simple! No buggy or trolley for Nicolas, off he heads down the first.
 
To that end, he uses short grass around greens rather than bunkers which he thinks penalizes the modest player as opposed to the tiger. Tom Simpson agreed! Teelal means small dunes in Arabic and the course is aptly named. It stretches just over 6700 yards and features three short par fours among the first five holes. I have never seen a start like it but you head to the sixth impressed. The only draw-back is that holes 11-14 track through housing but as Nicolas states, the playing corridors are 160 yards wide and quick growing trees have been planted.
 
Teelal opens in the second week of November after the clubhouse is completed. Its course profile will be up in a two weeks and is an easy one to write as you merely detail all the classic design elements: width, split fairway, central hazards, short grass, stone wall, punchbowl greens,  boomerang green, Biarritz green, greens that slope front to back, the list goes on. It is a fascinating study of how classic elements find their way to a remote outpost. If the resort guests at Saïdia don't become enchanted with the game after a round here, then the game was never meant for them. Meanwhile, the bar for architecture has been lifted in this nation's nascent golf culture.
 
I wish stories like this were plentiful. Sadly, few budding architects get a chance to display their talents. When they do, like Nicolas did in Morocco, it is cause for celebration. I hope that he gets many more opportunities.
 
Hope you enjoy this month's Feature Interview and its European perspective. Nicolas also provides a timely insight on this year's Ryder Cup course, golf in France and courses he would like to see restored (including his first one!).

Best,
« Last Edit: June 30, 2018, 11:13:53 AM by Ran Morrissett »

Thomas Dai

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2018, 08:21:49 AM »
Thank you Ran and Nicolas.
The analysis of a long hitters game made me chuckle! :)
The idea of some ladies tees at 4,400 seems pretty valid and the Atlas putting green looks a really cool feature to have.
Atb

Nicolas Joakimides

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 03:47:33 PM »
Yes Thomas, 4400 yards is good for ladies 18-36 hcp.
Average length in Europe is 5200 yards
It seems to be more around 5000 in USA...?


Happy to make you laugh !  ;)

John Mayhugh

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 07:47:51 AM »
Interesting interview. Thanks for this.
Nicolas,I have to ask about your French course recommendations. Not mentioning either Morfontaine or Saint-Germain surprises me. Seems that those would be the top two.


Nicolas Joakimides

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 05:23:35 PM »
John,


I understand..
I like St Germain and Mortefontaine but not as much as the others..
I know very well both courses and I don’t like so much the changes they have made recently.
😉
Nicolas J

Stuart Hallett

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2018, 05:22:50 PM »

Nicolas,
I agree with the potential at Chantilly Lys (needs a new owner) and Granville (which is actually improved over last 10 years).


I consider St-Germain as the best example of an intact Colt course in France, and Morfontaine as the best intact Simpson in France. Can you tell us some more about the changes you don't like so much ?


Thanks.
Stuart




Nicolas Joakimides

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2018, 01:31:44 AM »
Stuart,


At Mortfontaine, you have to walk backwards( And I don’t like that)  to reach the new backtees.
They hired Kyle Philips for this.




At St germain, I don’t like so much the new green complex on hole 2.
You also have to go backwards to reach new back tees at holes 10 and 14.
A fairway bunker disappeared in the middle of 15.


Nicolas J


Stuart Hallett

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2018, 04:10:56 AM »

Nicolas,
The courses you mention have a reputation for being 2 of the best walking courses in France (just look at the membership ;) ). The new back tees are not for daily play, just Grand Prix and maybe pro-ams which concerns you I suppose.
The 14th tee at St-Germain is just behind the 13th green, not exactly a long walk. The bunker on 15 still exists, as does most of Colts bunkering. The only thing I agree with is the 2nd green which was extended in the 90's. I should be put right one day.
 
Concerning Morfontaine, IMO, Kyle Philips did some very good work including the new 12th green. Again the new tees do not concern the average daily play.


You mentioned Chantilly Vineuil, which has a lot of backward walks. And also Les Bordes which is a very long way to walk.


Stuart




Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2018, 05:26:01 PM »
If it's 4400 for the ladies, then how long for the men?
Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Nicolas Joakimides

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 01:25:16 PM »
Ulrich,


from the back tee my course in France is 7100 yards long and the one in Morocco is 6700 yards long.
they both play 44OO yards from the front tee.
From my point of view,  IT WORKS .


 ;)

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 05:11:34 PM »
Did I understand you correctly, that men are expected to play from 6700 or even 7100, while women can play from 4400?

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Randy Thompson

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 03:22:20 PM »

Ulrich,
The only problem I have is calling them women tees instead of high handicapp tees. We all seem to devoted to making golf fun again after the architorture era. Fun golf is subjective but I am sure there are a group of seniors and women begineers and kids that are going to enjoy a 4400 yard course more then lets say the standard 20 to 25 percent less yardage in relation to the back tees.

Steve Kline

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2018, 07:13:59 AM »
The second to last paragraph of the interview with Nicolas' second reason for hiring him is so right on. If I had the money to build a golf course, then he would have sealed the deal with that statement.

Nicolas Joakimides

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2018, 03:39:36 PM »
Steve,


I am very glad to hear this ..Steve.🌈
 I can offer you 10 % of my fee if you find me a project/ investor !
😉


Simon Barrington

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Re: Feature Interview with Nicolas Joakimides New
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2024, 01:59:04 PM »

Nicolas,
I agree with the potential at Chantilly Lys (needs a new owner)...
Stuart
I know this is an old thread, but as a newbie I was searching for something else and just came across this.

I wholeheartedly agree with Nicolas & Stuart re. Chantilly Lys (or "International Club du Lys" as it prefers)
I played there for 11 years running, in their Scratch 72 Hole event (followed by Matchplay) "Le Challenge du Lys" in the late 80's & 90's. It was truly a joy with a great vibe as a Club Omnisport (Country Club) very family focused and relaxed. It's a truly special place, they even gave me horse riding lessons between rounds just to be hospitable!

It is an unsung and little spoken about Tom Simpson gem, little change had occurred over the years prior to when I visited so prime for a restoration (would be quite nervous about a "renovation" as it really was not broken in its bones and doesn't need another's hand on the design). It is quite expansive and tree-lined but not too claustrophobic, as the French Oaks grow straighter and with less spreading bows than the English Oaks (Quercus Robur). The green complexes are large, flowing and beautifully tied in, with plenty of interest in the approaches with topography alone.

The 17th as a Par 4 (they mistakenly lengthened it to a short 5 one year) is one of the best Par 4s in France (that I have played).
The routing is largely consistent with Simpson's triangles.

I believe a french .Com entrepreneur (to paraphrase GW Bush - "That's the issue with the French Economy they have no such word for Entrepreneur!"  ;D ) bought the course post the Millennium and sadly I have not been back since, so I hope its not too down on its presentation. I do not believe he has invested in any meaningful work on the courses, which may be a real blessing?

I thoroughly recommend anyone visiting France, The North of Paris (and/or nearby Chantilly & Morfontaine) to check it out, unless someone reports differently...En y vas! I hope to return in the next 18 months or so.

P.S. Golf de Saint Cloud is a wonderful Colt gem in Paris too!
« Last Edit: March 19, 2024, 04:45:03 AM by Simon Barrington »

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