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Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #125 on: March 04, 2023, 01:51:09 AM »
Pat Burke:

Thank you for joining in.  You offer a very different perspective than most to this debate.


Thank you Bruce.
Iím not without opinion and like the great quote
ďOften wrong, never in doubtĒ.


This is an interesting time for professional competitive golf.  Not the game of golf, professional golf.


The US Tour has held control over much of the pro golf landscape, and while playing, I often heard ďthe players are the tourĒ which was usually uttered by someone like Finchem or one the clique and greeted with many chuckles or rolled eyes. Itís tough for me, the pga tour was a stupidly good opportunity for me to play and chase dreams, but as largely a hockey fan who was lucky to know a lot of great athletes from other sports, the bureaucracy of the tour was taking advantage of the players and for many (not all) it was a one way street.
We played for a smaller % of revenues than the other main sports (my era) and there was, in my opinion, a lot of deflection from the tour when we asked pointed questions about retirement/bonus pools/ and other issues.


Many times the very direct answer was ďjust play better when you brought up concerns.


When I started to see some success and traveled a lot, you could experience the power the tour held and impacted other tours. The tour loved to create challenges that kept players from their home country tours and wanted to really control players.


Iíve always felt the tour sat high on the hill with little concern for those below them, which made them ripe for a challenge.


Financially, LIV is a giant threat, but Saudi Arabia is a pretty easy foe to stir opposition to.


Some feel that way about Norman, I donít.  My opinion of the Norman situation is it was created in the first world championships where Finchem rallied the good ol boys and really did a number on the IDEA Norman was presenting all while going around creating the same thing in WGC events, the only difference being it was pga tour controlled. Sounds familiar.


So Iím happy to see the tour challenged, and once again not surprised at all they were able to find millions more suddenly, they always do when challenged.  I wish the challenge came from backers you could get behind more.


So, my opinions to a point. I understand all who hate what LIV is doing, itís very difficult


Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #126 on: March 04, 2023, 03:09:27 AM »
Pat Burke:

Thank you for joining in.  You offer a very different perspective than most to this debate.
Iíve always felt the tour sat high on the hill with little concern for those below them, which made them ripe for a challenge.

Financially, LIV is a giant threat, but Saudi Arabia is a pretty easy foe to stir opposition to.

Some feel that way about Norman, I donít.  My opinion of the Norman situation is it was created in the first world championships where Finchem rallied the good ol boys and really did a number on the IDEA Norman was presenting all while going around creating the same thing in WGC events, the only difference being it was pga tour controlled. Sounds familiar.

So Iím happy to see the tour challenged, and once again not surprised at all they were able to find millions more suddenly, they always do when challenged.  I wish the challenge came from backers you could get behind more.

So, my opinions to a point. I understand all who hate what LIV is doing, itís very difficult

I feel largely the same way as you do. I don't like LIV, who does? But I didn't find the US Tour very entertaining nor squeaky clean from dirty money. So I welcomed LIV chaos. I was (knowingly) unrealistically hoping for a more global US Tour, but at least things have changed. I don't think the changes address my desires so I won't return as a fan of the Tour, but who knows, maybe there are more changes to come? It took a lot for the Tour to wake up, so more changes won't seem so impossible to achieve.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Clyne, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, West Byfleet, North Foreland & Ladybank

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #127 on: March 04, 2023, 12:55:27 PM »
Bad analogy, but sort of. The LIV has sparked big changes in the Tour like Floodís crusade eventually did. The top Tour players a few years down the road will owe a thanks to the LIV as ball players after Flood did. That said, Iím not sure the LIV will fail and fade away like Curt.
I think that it will fade away.  LIV has generated a lot of press, but it is almost all on the business side of what is happening rather than what is happening on the golf course.  No one yet cares about the actual golf being played.  If that doesn't change then not only do the Saudis keep losing tons of money, but they are also not fulfilling their primary objective, which is to improve their standing via sportswashing.  So I think they will devote their resources in other areas, like Formula One, where they may be getting more traction in this area.

David Cronan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2023, 06:08:16 PM »
Well, I think the PGA Tour has certainly, once again, expressed their feelings towards Cameron Davis about migrating to the LIV tour as they have paired him, the defending champion, for the first two rounds with Trey Mullinax and Tyler Duncan.


I'm sure Mullinax and Duncan are great guys but there's nothing subtle about the PGA Tour's intent with this pairing...

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2023, 06:21:35 PM »
Well, I think the PGA Tour has certainly, once again, expressed their feelings towards Cameron Davis about migrating to the LIV tour as they have paired him, the defending champion, for the first two rounds with Trey Mullinax and Tyler Duncan.


I'm sure Mullinax and Duncan are great guys but there's nothing subtle about the PGA Tour's intent with this pairing...


Wrong Cameron.  Cam Smith will be playing in Tucson next week.
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2023, 06:37:59 PM »
Bad analogy, but sort of. The LIV has sparked big changes in the Tour like Floodís crusade eventually did. The top Tour players a few years down the road will owe a thanks to the LIV as ball players after Flood did. That said, Iím not sure the LIV will fail and fade away like Curt.
I think that it will fade away.  LIV has generated a lot of press, but it is almost all on the business side of what is happening rather than what is happening on the golf course.  No one yet cares about the actual golf being played.  If that doesn't change then not only do the Saudis keep losing tons of money, but they are also not fulfilling their primary objective, which is to improve their standing via sportswashing.  So I think they will devote their resources in other areas, like Formula One, where they may be getting more traction in this area.


Ask yourself what it costs to wash an American mind of racism. I believe the Saudis have.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT: Golf, But Louder
« Reply #131 on: March 19, 2023, 05:46:08 PM »
The Saudis have lost about $1.4 Billion on Credit Suisse in the last six months.  It was a different entity than the LIV owner, but I wonder if this will make them pull back at all.

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