News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« on: January 17, 2023, 06:23:27 AM »
Do you enjoy playing 18-holes when itís cold and the ground is continuously frosty or would you rather give it a miss?
Do greenkeepers like golf being played when itís frosty?
Are there any architectural implications?
Atb

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2023, 06:30:09 AM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2023, 06:57:16 AM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.

Burnham does not close for frost. I never noticed material damage to the greens. To some degree it's self policing. Many golfers won't go out in the frost.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood & Ladybank

Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2023, 07:17:32 AM »
A thread from a month or so ago on a greenkeepers perspective and why it can and cannot be ok.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,71532.msg1719427.html#msg1719427
Golf construction & maintenance are like creating a masterpiece; Da Vinci didn't paint the Mona Lisa's eyes first..... You start with the backdrop, layer on the detail and fine tune the finished product into a masterpiece

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2023, 09:24:51 AM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.

Burnham does not close for frost. I never noticed material damage to the greens. To some degree it's self policing. Many golfers won't go out in the frost.

Ciao
Ali is spot on that ALMOST EVERY course manage would close if the roots are in perma frost but the top is ok, this causes the roots to severe. With salt content on links courses frozen greens are rarer. If the top is just white then it does very little damage other than causes black marks (although the bruising can let disease in so some close whenever)
If we are being pedantic it is best to NOT PLAY ON A GREEN when damage occurs which is anytime when growth rates are too low, usually below 45F, so in the UK about FIVE MONTHS of winter!
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2023, 10:11:39 AM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.


Iím just back from playing a quick 18 round a hard-frozen Ashludie course at Monifieth and can vouch for it being very enjoyable, in spite of the cold. Not a day for worrying about your scord - my wedge on the first par 3 landed close to the hole and finished 50 yards long - but it beats sitting inside any day.




Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2023, 10:49:13 AM »
While i'm not in Tommy's age range yet as mentioned in the other thread, i'm far removed from my 30s too..

My golfing days in freezing temps are over...

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2023, 11:26:49 AM »
Up here in the northeast, we have "frost delays" & "frost waiting" in later October & November - warmer days & chilly nights where the dew freezes.  Given the shorter days, it sometimes prevents finishing a round.


We don't hear this too often in the spring since by April 1 or so most of the cold weather is gone; you may get a day on occasion where play is held up an hour, but the sun is up longer and things work out.


Most of the courses here will top dress their greens & tees with sand, many also apply heat blankets to keep these areas a bit toastier; which allows for great recovery in the Spring when everyone is anxious to get out and play in the warmer weather   

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2023, 11:40:13 AM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.


Iím just back from playing a quick 18 round a hard-frozen Ashludie course at Monifieth and can vouch for it being very enjoyable, in spite of the cold. Not a day for worrying about your scord - my wedge on the first par 3 landed close to the hole and finished 50 yards long - but it beats sitting inside any day.

Is the Ashludie worth 55 quid? Considering a game there in July.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood & Ladybank

James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2023, 01:30:18 PM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.


Iím just back from playing a quick 18 round a hard-frozen Ashludie course at Monifieth and can vouch for it being very enjoyable, in spite of the cold. Not a day for worrying about your scord - my wedge on the first par 3 landed close to the hole and finished 50 yards long - but it beats sitting inside any day.

Is the Ashludie worth 55 quid? Considering a game there in July.

Ciao


To be honest, £55 seems a bit steep to me; Iím sure I only paid £30 in the summer a couple of years ago.  Thatís not to say it isnít worth seeing though.  Itís only 5,000 yards but is proper linksy ground and full of fun short par 4s (11 between 250 and 340 yards), several of which are really good.  The £20 extra to make a 36-hole day with the Medal course is a no brainer. Have you played the Medal?


Iíll be interested to see what CDP do there, as I understand theyíre looking at both courses.


When are you planning to be up here?  Itíd be great to catch up if Iím around.  And I see that youíre also going to be in Yorkshire at some point.  Can I tempt you to finally see Halifax and/or Huddersfield if youíve time?


Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2023, 01:38:39 PM »
Sean, you would _love_ Ogden (Halifax).
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2023, 05:13:41 PM »
Up here in the northeast, we have "frost delays" & "frost waiting" in later October & November - warmer days & chilly nights where the dew freezes.  Given the shorter days, it sometimes prevents finishing a round.


We don't hear this too often in the spring since by April 1 or so most of the cold weather is gone; you may get a day on occasion where play is held up an hour, but the sun is up longer and things work out.


Most of the courses here will top dress their greens & tees with sand, many also apply heat blankets to keep these areas a bit toastier; which allows for great recovery in the Spring when everyone is anxious to get out and play in the warmer weather   


This Winter has been incredibly mild in Connecticut and as a result the shoreline courses that are usually the only options for Winter golf weather depending now have company with courses open in Farmington, Middlefield and Oxford which are all inland and a ways from Long Island Sound. Started out today with some semi frosty/crunchy grass which really had no effect on the greens. To play in the Hartford area this Winter has been a real bonus. :)




Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2023, 05:33:12 PM »
There are few things more enjoyable than playing a quick 18 on a links course on a clear, cold & calm winter dayÖ


But course managers will be closing the course if the root zone is frozen part way down.


Iím just back from playing a quick 18 round a hard-frozen Ashludie course at Monifieth and can vouch for it being very enjoyable, in spite of the cold. Not a day for worrying about your scord - my wedge on the first par 3 landed close to the hole and finished 50 yards long - but it beats sitting inside any day.

Is the Ashludie worth 55 quid? Considering a game there in July.

Ciao


To be honest, £55 seems a bit steep to me; Iím sure I only paid £30 in the summer a couple of years ago.  Thatís not to say it isnít worth seeing though.  Itís only 5,000 yards but is proper linksy ground and full of fun short par 4s (11 between 250 and 340 yards), several of which are really good.  The £20 extra to make a 36-hole day with the Medal course is a no brainer. Have you played the Medal?


Iíll be interested to see what CDP do there, as I understand theyíre looking at both courses.


When are you planning to be up here?  Itíd be great to catch up if Iím around.  And I see that youíre also going to be in Yorkshire at some point.  Can I tempt you to finally see Halifax and/or Huddersfield if youíve time?

James

Four of us will be in St Andrews for three nights from 3 July. We have Panmure and Ladybank organised. Carnasty fell through so we are looking for two more games. The boys want to try TOC ballot so I was looking for no/low deposit bookings for a few few days. Kinghorn came to mind, but they never respond. Ashludie sounds a bit expensive and they want the greenfee upfront. Elie fee has skyrocketed to £140 and paid upfront. It's a seller's market in Scotland 😢. We may wing on the day once we inevitably fail in the ballot 😎.

Harrogate is the last stop of the trip heading home. Playing in a comp of some sort.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood & Ladybank

James Reader

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2023, 08:58:14 AM »
I should just wing it if I were you. Just check on GolfNow if and when youíre unsuccessful in the ballot. I use it up here all the time and never have difficulty finding somewhere decent to play.


Iím not surprised Kinghorn doesnít do advance bookings - itís a muni after all - but youíll be extremely unlucky not to be able to get a game there on a dayís notice. If youíve not played them before, Forfar and Arbroath often have times available and are well worth the £50-60 they were charging last summer. You might also find a better last minute deal on the Ashludie.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2023, 06:19:48 PM »
I like the cold because it use to mean quiet day fast play, however played this weekend with 40 degrees as a high and 130 people played the course that day Ödamn Covid lol

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2023, 05:51:57 AM »
Even with links some courses are better blessed than others. I recall when I used to play a lot of winter golf through at Gullane, we used to routinely phone ahead to make sure they were on the main greens and we routinely got the response "we're always on the main greens" and true enough I can't recall ever playing a temp green unless the main green was getting some repair work.


In contrast at Gailes, they would sometimes go on to temp greens when there had been a heavy frost. The ground would be so hard you couldn't get a tee in the ground and had to tee the ball on a bit of ice or loose turf and play with a hybrid. The best bit was the "greens" which would be placed in the hollows and rumples of the fairway in front of the main greens and generally had a lot more undulation. I often imagined that kind of golf was closer to what they played in the mid 19th century compared to what we normally play.


Niall

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2023, 05:56:04 AM »
Sean


I seem to recall that you could book Kinghorn online but could be wrong. Like James, I'd be surprised if you don't get on readily enough. If in trouble there is always Burntisland which is a couple of miles along the road. Also worth a play although not as barmy as Kinghorn.


With regards to Forfar, you probably know I'm a fan. It's a modest club with a modest sized course but that course has an interesting topography and a lot of good architecture. Well worth a visit. Unfortunately I've yet to make Arbroath so can't comment.


Niall

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Golf when the grass is continuously frosty
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2023, 06:21:27 AM »
I should just wing it if I were you. Just check on GolfNow if and when youíre unsuccessful in the ballot. I use it up here all the time and never have difficulty finding somewhere decent to play.


Iím not surprised Kinghorn doesnít do advance bookings - itís a muni after all - but youíll be extremely unlucky not to be able to get a game there on a dayís notice. If youíve not played them before, Forfar and Arbroath often have times available and are well worth the £50-60 they were charging last summer. You might also find a better last minute deal on the Ashludie.

James

Cheers.

Niall...looking into Burntisland as well. It would seem the Scots are allergic to winter communications.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood & Ladybank

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back