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Paul Jones

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Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2022, 02:24:44 PM »
I played Lofoten Links this summer. I like it but as much as I'd like it to be in the top 100, it really doesn't belong. It was very good, and playing golf in the arctic circle is fun, but the course didn't live up to its billing. It is in a stunning place, however.


« Last Edit: November 24, 2022, 02:53:39 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Cal Seifert

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2022, 08:21:42 PM »
The list is good but the one that seems weird is Santapazienda. I’ve never been so cannot comment on the course but seems ‘unlikely’ to be a top 100 course in the world.

Paul Jones

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2022, 08:28:30 PM »
The list is good but the one that seems weird is Santapazienda. I’ve never been so cannot comment on the course but seems ‘unlikely’ to be a top 100 course in the world.


Cal,


What makes it seem unlikely… Architect? Location? Website?


I haven’t played it either.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Paul Jones

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2022, 09:18:23 PM »
A few notes from the list:


12 Augusta National
32 North Berwick
41 St Patrick's
51 Shanqin Bay
70 Ardfin
96 Lofoten Links
99 Santapazienda



Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Matt_Cohn

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2022, 01:28:42 AM »
51 Shanqin Bay


Does it still have 18 holes? And is that one of the criteria?

Jeff Schley

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2022, 01:40:12 AM »
51 Shanqin Bay


Does it still have 18 holes? And is that one of the criteria?
Apparently yes, as per the introduction to the list.
"Most of these courses emanate from the United States but they’re headed by a new Tom Doak design from the Republic of Ireland, closely followed by Coore and Crenshaw’s Shanqin Bay layout on Hainan Island which now has an even better 17th hole to replace the one that was lost to government intervention."
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jeff Schley

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2022, 01:54:24 AM »
Their methodology.https://www.top100golfcourses.com/ranking-rating


The objective of Top100GolfCourses is to curate the most respected ranking lists for global, national, regional and local areas. Our panellists are to be well educated, considered, and exceptionally well-travelled
We don't believe you can simply distill golf courses into numbers and scores, so whilst we have a 'guidance' section for our panellists — it is not a prescriptive set of 'criteria' for you to set scores alongside.
We believe we have one of the strongest and well informed panels, and we trust you to draw your own conclusions.
Once the lists are submitted and relative positions collated — a core group will check for anomalies, biases or anything that simply looks out of place.Ranking GuidanceWe believe it's important to stand for something. It is simply not possible to be all things to all people, and it's a fools errand to try. For us, that's strategic golf. Varied, interesting and engaging golf that asks questions answered by different golfers in different ways.
We do not believe it is possible to take all emotion and personal preference out of the ranking equation, nor should we try to do so. That's why this is not a 'criteria' but a 'guidance'. These are examples of things we believe should be rewarded, but ultimately it is your decision.
As long as lists are well considered, devoid of bias and reward the courses you'd like to visit time and time again — that's all we ask for.
Our Five main points of guidance are:
  • Architecture
  • Strategic Challenge
  • Variety
  • Consistency
  • Condition and Management
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Sean_A

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2022, 02:48:36 AM »
Their methodology.https://www.top100golfcourses.com/ranking-rating


The objective of Top100GolfCourses is to curate the most respected ranking lists for global, national, regional and local areas. Our panellists are to be well educated, considered, and exceptionally well-travelled
We don't believe you can simply distill golf courses into numbers and scores, so whilst we have a 'guidance' section for our panellists — it is not a prescriptive set of 'criteria' for you to set scores alongside.
We believe we have one of the strongest and well informed panels, and we trust you to draw your own conclusions.
Once the lists are submitted and relative positions collated — a core group will check for anomalies, biases or anything that simply looks out of place.Ranking GuidanceWe believe it's important to stand for something. It is simply not possible to be all things to all people, and it's a fools errand to try. For us, that's strategic golf. Varied, interesting and engaging golf that asks questions answered by different golfers in different ways.
We do not believe it is possible to take all emotion and personal preference out of the ranking equation, nor should we try to do so. That's why this is not a 'criteria' but a 'guidance'. These are examples of things we believe should be rewarded, but ultimately it is your decision.
As long as lists are well considered, devoid of bias and reward the courses you'd like to visit time and time again — that's all we ask for.
Our Five main points of guidance are:
  • Architecture
  • Strategic Challenge
  • Variety
  • Consistency
  • Condition and Management

It's good this is only a guidance list. I have no idea what consistency means. Strategic Challenge raises red flags.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 03:49:56 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022:

Thomas Dai

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2022, 03:14:26 AM »
"Guidance" is probably a reasonable word to describe all the various 'top' etc lists that are produced.
atb

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2022, 03:21:36 AM »
Well done David and Simon.

New look is a huge improvement, you're given the site a major overhaul.

I look forward to seeing what's next.  FWIW I found the Peugeot Guide a model of how to quickly give an essence of what a course is about. It quickly provided info on type of course, architect, difficulty etc. Symbols were intelligently used. When travelling I started there and if my interest was piqued, looked further.

Shame you've been so busy we don't see much of you here, but clearly you are spending your time well.

Hope to catch up next year.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Jeff Schley

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #11 on: November 25, 2022, 03:41:55 AM »
Their raters are more European based it seems. So can appreciate the variation in the top 100. I do like they summarize the new additions and drops.
  • Before examining some chart highlights, those of you interested in knowing the dozen courses that dropped out from our 2020 standings will find that they are as follows:
  • Diamante Dunes, Old Sandwich, TPC at Sawgrass (Stadium), Bandon Dunes (Old Macdonald), Muirfield Village, Victoria, Royal Adelaide, West Sussex, Lanhai International (Yangtze Dunes), European Club, Essex County Club and The Golf Club.
  • Our new entries are:
  • Rosapenna (St Patrick's), Shanqin Bay, Oak Hill (East), CapRock Ranch, Southern Hills (Championship), Sleepy Hollow (Upper), Myopia Hunt, Eastward Ho!, Inverness, Lofoten Links, Baltusrol (Lower), Rock Creek Cattle Company
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Tom_Doak

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2022, 09:07:54 AM »
The list is good but the one that seems weird is Santapazienda. I’ve never been so cannot comment on the course but seems ‘unlikely’ to be a top 100 course in the world.


Considering the rest of the list is mostly a compilation of other world rankings, that course - which appears on none of the other rankings, that I'm aware of - is certainly an anomaly. 


Of course, the only person who has ever told me it belongs in the top 100 is one of the owners of the website that ranks it as such.


Selling the new inland hole at Shanqin Bay as better than the original, also seems unlikely, but I'm not going back to find out.

Ben Sims

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2022, 02:02:37 PM »
Top 100 Golf Courses, warts and all, is pretty good. I like that we can get a read on what reviewers are thinking in lieu of a random ranking with no background.

Ira Fishman

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2022, 05:00:33 PM »
Top 100 Golf Courses, warts and all, is pretty good. I like that we can get a read on what reviewers are thinking in lieu of a random ranking with no background.


I agree. The written reviews by individuals are very helpful, especially when one gets the hang of the predilections of the reviewers. The process of how they compile the top course lists is opaque unfortunately.


It would be productive for the reader if GM and Top100 combined the best aspects of each of them. GM including all of the written comments and scores by rater, and Top100 identifying all of the raters whose opinions drive their rankings.


Ira

David_Tepper

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2022, 06:52:42 PM »
I know Old Town is highly regarded on this board, but I was a little surprised to see it at #59. That puts in the company of the Cal Club, Garden City, Woodhall Spa, Castle Stuart, Ganton, Cruden Bay, Royal Lytham, Royal Aberdeen, etc. 

I have not played OT, but have played several of those other courses. Was anyone else surprised to see it ranked so high?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 07:38:23 PM by David_Tepper »

Sean_A

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2022, 07:14:48 PM »
I know Old Town is highly regarded on this board, but I was a little surprised to see it at #59. That puts in the company of the Cal Club, Garden City, Woodhall Spa, Castle Stuart, Ganton, Cruden Bay, Royal Lytham, Royal Aberdeen, etc. 


I have not played OT, but have played several of those other courses. Was anyone else surprised to see it ranked so high?

I am surprised OT is recognised in that league, but it unquestionably does fit very well with many of the group of courses you mention.

I am wondering when Woodhall Spa will be exposed as a Top100 world fraud.

Ciao
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 04:38:32 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2022:

Jeff Schley

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2022, 03:30:58 AM »
Out of those dropped I would say Old Sandwich is the one I am familiar with is an omission. Also I'm a big proponent of the Valley Club which is hard to believe that course isn't in the top 100 courses in the world and an omission to me.  Some humble observations.

5 IMO ranked too low:
  • #29 Tara Iti - Beauty and land
  • #31 Chicago - Great example of architecture to think 30 are better?
  • #58 Cape Wickham - marriage of ocean with width, love this DeVries course
  • #61 Maidstone - I think will continue to climb in future years
  • #90 Barnbougle Lost Farm - Loved it for width and variety, had it all
5 IMO ranked to high:
  • #3 RCD - I'll take TOC over this
  • #35 Prairie Dunes - Too tight IMO
  • #45 Kingsbarns - really like the course but seems high here
  • #73 Bandon Dunes - this is high for the world list
  • #77 Ellerston - haven't played it, those who have say overrated due to exclusivity
« Last Edit: November 26, 2022, 03:37:26 AM by Jeff Schley »
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Mike Worth

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2022, 09:01:34 AM »
I think this will be my first post about golf course rankings. Rankings are too subjective to get emotional about.  To me, they serve as a general guide to what courses are architecturally and otherwise superior.


Anyway, my one comment is to wonder how Ganton makes the list but Alwoodley doesn’t. If you’re going to pick the best course from that area, it’s clearly Alwoodley.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2022, 09:35:38 AM »
I think this will be my first post about golf course rankings. Rankings are too subjective to get emotional about.  To me, they serve as a general guide to what courses are architecturally and otherwise superior.


Anyway, my one comment is to wonder how Ganton makes the list but Alwoodley doesn’t. If you’re going to pick the best course from that area, it’s clearly Alwoodley.


And as if to prove your point, I think Ganton is the clear winner between those two. And I do love Alwoodley.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: Top 100 Golf Courses of the World 2023
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2022, 05:05:34 PM »
I'm not the first to write this, but there are 200 courses that deserve to be in the world's top 100.

There are 20 that could be argued into the top 10.

There are 35 that could be debated into the top 20.

The list goes on, as the nuance distinction is minute and personal.

The more experience one has with a particular course, the more aware (and often, more protective) one becomes of that course.

How many plays are too few, and how many are too many?

I like knowing that a course has hosted a major event, and the longer ago, the better.

I like knowing that a respected architect had a hand in the course's design and construction.

I like knowing that someone thought enough of a course to produce a written or photographic piece, be it on a personal feed or blog, or a major web or print publication.
Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

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