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Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« on: November 09, 2022, 08:17:43 PM »
I was surprised to read that Pikewood is the only WV course in the 2023 Golf Magazine top 100. I was rebuffed in my one attempt to play/photograph the course. I did play Pete Dye GC once, and I enjoyed the golf and the photography.


Is Pikewood the better of the two courses? I'd love to hear from folks that have played both. I'll watch my Furbo to see what walks by this thread.
Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2022, 09:59:00 AM »
They are both excellent courses. PDGC has a few holes on the back nine that aren't as good as the rest of the course, which might take away from its sheen. PN is the more difficult, especially for me. The routing of PN is a marvel, and the holes are more heroic. PD is a course you could play every day.


When I was looking to join an away club, I considered both. PN is just too long for me at my age.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2022, 08:00:38 AM »
Tommy, I would love to know which holes on the inward half are the blander ones. I have a few suspects, and would love to know your respected perspective.


I took a tour around the PN website, and looked at the aerial grabs and hole layouts. A lot of the holes bore similarity to others on the course. In addition, that wraparound-style, par five hole has never impressed me, no matter who did it (RTJ at Dunes in Myrtle Beach; Emmet at Otesage in Cooperstown; Strantz on multiple occasions.)


Would it be safe to say that these are the two best courses in the Mountaineer state?
Maybe for 2022
~Eden Valley
~Hillview
~Pinehurst (NY)
~Kis 'N Greens
~Pine Meadows
~18 Mile Creek
~Greenwood
~Shawnee
~Leroy
~

Matt Gunter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2022, 09:09:47 AM »
I had the opportunity to play both this year. They are both fantastic -- but distinct (both from a golf perspective and a "vibe" perspective). Pikewood felt more "natural" to me, in a sense, while PDGC felt like it tried a bit too hard at times (e.g. the green on 17). Pikewood was also a much more low key vibe, while PDGC felt more like a hangout spot to play music and drink a beer.


Both fantastic courses that I would play anytime, but also very different. The views at Pikewood are fantastic.


Matt

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2022, 09:41:55 AM »
If you did Mike Nuzzo's suggested Beauty/Challenge/Fun ratings for each, I think it would come out something like this [note this is the first time I've tried to do this]:


Pikewood  7 / 9 / 5


Pete Dye GC.  8 / 8 / 7


They are just going to appeal to different people, and I think this is the best way to break it down.  Note also that I have not played Pikewood, I just walked it, in the company of one of the co-architects.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2022, 10:34:44 AM »
Tommy, I would love to know which holes on the inward half are the blander ones. I have a few suspects, and would love to know your respected perspective.


I took a tour around the PN website, and looked at the aerial grabs and hole layouts. A lot of the holes bore similarities to others on the course. In addition, that wraparound-style, par five hole has never impressed me, no matter who did it (RTJ at Dunes in Myrtle Beach; Emmet at Otesage in Cooperstown; Strantz on multiple occasions.)


Would it be safe to say that these are the two best courses in the Mountaineer state?


Ronald, I take that back. After reviewing my photos, I felt 12-14 were not as good, albeit difficult. But they are fine holes.

The biggest complaint about the course is the green on 17 as being a bit severe.
As for PN, I never felt that any of the holes were similar. That might be the difference between viewing the course on the ground and from the air. The par five that wraps around the quarry is just terrific. They both are head and shoulders above the other WVA courses.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2022, 10:37:28 AM by Tommy Williamsen »
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2022, 04:09:30 PM »
I think a solid claim can be made that PDGC is Dye's best inland design. I think the course represents what he was all about very well. One of his best finishing holes. Kind of like a Dye template in a natural setting that doesn't feel forced.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2022, 05:50:34 AM »
I think a solid claim can be made that PDGC is Dye's best inland design. I think the course represents what he was all about very well. One of his best finishing holes. Kind of like a Dye template in a natural setting that doesn't feel forced.


FWIW....PDGC doesn't hold a candle to The Golf Club.
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Stephen Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2022, 09:57:44 AM »
Tommy, I would love to know which holes on the inward half are the blander ones. I have a few suspects, and would love to know your respected perspective.


I took a tour around the PN website, and looked at the aerial grabs and hole layouts. A lot of the holes bore similarity to others on the course. In addition, that wraparound-style, par five hole has never impressed me, no matter who did it (RTJ at Dunes in Myrtle Beach; Emmet at Otesage in Cooperstown; Strantz on multiple occasions.)


Would it be safe to say that these are the two best courses in the Mountaineer state?


I think they are the best 2 in the state, but having just visited the Greenbrier, I do have a lot of love for Old White.

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2022, 05:36:28 PM »
I'm still not sure if I'm a fan of Pete Dye golf courses in general but I did walk away thinking PDGC was a great golf course. Only hole I thought was average was #14 I believe. I even liked #17.


I preferred it to Pikewood even though I thought Pikewood was really good too. I think I have a bias against the ultra small, private playground type courses compared to the places that feel like real golf "clubs"

Michael George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Pikewood National vs. Pete Dye Golf Club
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2022, 10:25:20 AM »
In my opinion, if you are only contrasting the golf courses, it is not even close.  I think Pete Dye Golf Club is the far better golf course.  it is far more strategic and requires a great deal more thought than Pikewood.  From the 1st tee, Pete Dye GC is in your head.  Almost every shot has a decision to be made and an angle to be determined.  In fact, I could argue that Pete Dye GC is one of the best designs in terms of angles of play for a non-links golf course that I have played.  On the other hand, there is little decision making at Pikewood.   There is rarely a tee shot at Pikewood that requires thought or any angle of play and there is little strategy in terms of how to play a hole. 

I just think people get lost in the views and exclusivity of Pikewood.  If you are asking to rank total experience, I think you can have an argument either way, as I really did enjoy my day at Pikewood.  It is a great place.  However, the golf is better at Pete Dye Golf Club.

And I don't care about exclusivity - in fact, it is one of my biggest annoyances about some people's opinions on golf clubs.   Why should exclusivity be anything that a golfer cares about or values?  Yet, I know when I read certain people's posts on this board that exclusivity is the basis of their opinion. 
"First come my wife and children.  Next comes my profession--the law. Finally, and never as a life in itself, comes golf" - Bob Jones

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