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Kalen Braley

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #100 on: November 16, 2022, 11:00:55 AM »
Just to be clear,

I'm advocating that the DS be used as a template to establish a more effective system of ranking/rating/evaluating courses and putting them in a list....not that Tom's personal ratings be the only ones on the list.  I'm guessing even he wouldn't advocate that! ;D

James Brown

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #101 on: November 18, 2022, 10:52:13 AM »
I think overrated is certainly not the proper description that comes to mind on any of Bandon's courses. It is like Miss Universe, whoever finishes 10th will still induce whiplash. I think let's celebrate it as opposed to really waste effort arguing if it is #50 and should be #85.  It is a great course. As we don't have old historical links courses like the UK then we can create them better late than never.


Jeff


Have you played the Streamsong and Sand Valley layouts? I'm keen how you (or anyone else) views BD in relation to them?
I have played SV but not SS. My 2 cents, is that SV/MD are much grander and feeling of seclusion with some trees. The greens at BD I think are better than either layout at SV. The width off the tees for SV/MD make it easier off the tee. Of course with BD being a links and exposed to weather even 15-20 mph winds really make it difficult for us amateurs.

Separate from the golf, the views at BD really are great and adds to your day regardless of what you shot.


Last year, got to Sand Valley for the first time and I am so grateful to have had the chance to see Cabot as well and I have been to Streamsong and Bandon many times. 


Bandon is the only place in that I dream about and that still gives me goosebumps when I book a trip or drive up to the lodge.  And walking onto the 16th green at Bandon Dunes at golden hour on the day I get there knocks some years off every time. Itís not underrated, itís Dream Golf.  Itís not all about the shots, a whole lot of it is about the walking. 

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #102 on: November 18, 2022, 11:16:31 AM »
Bandon is a marvel. Keiser went against convention and the advice of people "in the know." He built a walking-only resort three hours from an airport. It took me three flights to get there on Delta. He hired an unknown to design the course. He could have built a private club that folks would have spent many $s to join. That is visionary thinking that few have or would try.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

David_Tepper

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #103 on: November 24, 2022, 06:25:34 PM »
The new Top 100 rankings have Bandon Dunes at #73 in the world, ahead of Bandon Trails at #75.

https://www.top100golfcourses.com/top-100-golf-courses-of-the-world?page=10

David Ober

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #104 on: November 25, 2022, 08:45:02 AM »
No, it's the course I most look forward to playing at the Resort.


Not even a tiny bit overrated.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #105 on: Yesterday at 09:39:31 PM »
Is Bandon Dunes (the resort i.e. all 5 courses) overrated?


No, I think the resort as a whole is fantastic. It is probably the best place that I have been where you get such great golf courses without ever having to leave the resort.

I think some missed my OP - I was referring to the BD course not the resort. Reading through the thread its clear that I am not alone with those thoughts.


I believe every course that has opened since it more than outshines it.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #106 on: Today at 04:33:50 PM »
Is Bandon Dunes (the resort i.e. all 5 courses) overrated?


No, I think the resort as a whole is fantastic. It is probably the best place that I have been where you get such great golf courses without ever having to leave the resort.

I think some missed my OP - I was referring to the BD course not the resort. Reading through the thread its clear that I am not alone with those thoughts.


I believe every course that has opened since it more than outshines it.


As someone who hears guest rankings of the courses on a frequent basis, BD is generally closer to the top of those lists than the bottom. 
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Ira Fishman

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #107 on: Today at 05:25:16 PM »
Sven,


We were sorry to miss you on our visit a few months ago. Here is my take in a slightly different form from earlier postings in this thread:

Given the site, BT is simply brilliant. Regardless of the site, it is one of the best courses I have played.

Given the site, PD is brilliant. My guess is that most golfers do not appreciate how few holes actually are on the ocean. Nor that several of the best holes are not on the ocean.

Given the site, OM is impressive because of the homage mandate.

Given the site, Sheep Ranch is enjoyable and scenic.

Given the site, BD is very good but not great.


Ira



« Last Edit: Today at 05:29:04 PM by Ira Fishman »

Sven Nilsen

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #108 on: Today at 06:13:26 PM »
Ira:


The major knock on Trails is that the course doesnít really change depending on where the pins are located.  There are very few to no instances of adjusting your line off the tee to create a better angle.  You get that in spades at Old Mac and Bandon.


The biggest challenge at Trails is accepting where the fat part of the fairway actually lies without succumbing to C&Cís visual tricks.


Not necessarily a knock on the course, but once you unlock the puzzle box of space the course gets way easier.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Ira Fishman

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #109 on: Today at 07:07:59 PM »
Sven,


I understand your point, but the variety of the holes and the use of the different landforms (plus the visual trickery) is what makes BT so compelling. And even if a good player finds the fat part off the tee, they still need accuracy and distance control for the approach.


Regarding BD, I appreciated it more on our second visit, but there are a few weaker holes and the sum is not greater than the parts. Perhaps my biggest hang up is that the ocean is used more visually than strategically; hence, my comment regarding given the site.


You know the courses far better than I, but this thread has made me think about the question quite a bit.


The resort clearly is unmatched for the quality of the golf. However, that fact does not lead to the conclusion that all of the courses do not warrant some careful analysis about their relative quality. For example, we played Yale a month before our trip to Bandon. It is clearly better than BD, OM, and SR by a fair measure.


Ira
« Last Edit: Today at 07:11:42 PM by Ira Fishman »

Max Prokopy

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Re: Is Bandon Dunes overrated?
« Reply #110 on: Today at 08:15:52 PM »
Wait so its not obviously implicit that a 10 is ranked higher than a 7?  I mean the descriptions pretty well do that

7 - An excellent course if within 100 miles, but not necessarily anything unique.
vs
10 - Nearly perfect, you would miss something if you missed just one hole.


That's why I've always really liked it as a hybrid rating system because its a good way to apply a relative rating, without needing to split hairs why a DS 10 like Pine valley is better than CPC, or to limit oneself to top 50, 100, or whatever.

Kalen-My point was that that is nothing to differentiate all the 7ís as an example. Like Sean Iím good with that.

Yes, I can certainly agree on that point, I'd think its better to just list them

If GD or Golf Magazine or Golf Week wanted to avoid controversy and provide a more honest assessment of courses they would not try differentiate two courses with same DS rating. I don't know how well received Michelin is, but getting a 1, 2, or 3 star rating seems to work well enough.


I quite agree with you, and have full confidence you understand that "controversy" is part of the point for these publications.  The diehards, like GCA folks, will want something more along the lines of the lists you suggest.  Nevertheless I'll confess to looking up some of the ratings before visiting new territory, as it's a reasonable starting point.


In my lone trip to Bandon I would put PD at the top overall.  Kidd certainly seemed to learn from his work (errors) at BD, as I truly enjoyed what he accomplished at Mammoth Dunes. 

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