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Sean_A

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2022, 03:16:50 AM »
Birmingham City courses (excluding children's courses) include

Lickey Hills...not a bad course in summer

Pyle Hayes

Hatchford Brook

Hilltop...closed for redevelopment as a new golf facility...I think it will go to 9 holes etc

Check JH Taylor designs...he was big into munis.

Check a charity called My Time Active..I think they manage some munis.

Ciao



New plays planned for 2022:

Ben Stephens

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2022, 03:56:45 AM »
Allestree Park in Derby which is now closed its a Harry Colt course prob 15 of his holes were in play recently.


I've been providing advice to the campaign to save Allestree. The evidence is that John Morrison was mainly responsible for the design.


Hi Adam,


That's interesting to know other clubs have claimed to be a Colt course - I know Luffenham claims to be a Colt course however Paul Turner disputed that and claimed that its likely that John White did the works. Braid also made recommendations/changes.


Cheers
Ben

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2022, 06:47:34 AM »
Allestree Park in Derby which is now closed its a Harry Colt course prob 15 of his holes were in play recently.


I've been providing advice to the campaign to save Allestree. The evidence is that John Morrison was mainly responsible for the design.

Hi Adam,

That's interesting to know other clubs have claimed to be a Colt course - I know Luffenham claims to be a Colt course however Paul Turner disputed that and claimed that its likely that John White did the works. Braid also made recommendations/changes.

Cheers
Ben


Luffenham has a rather lovely drawing dated August 1910 and signed 'C.A.' From appearances it seems to be Hugh Alison's first provable design work.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2022, 06:56:29 AM »
Allestree Park in Derby which is now closed its a Harry Colt course prob 15 of his holes were in play recently.


I've been providing advice to the campaign to save Allestree. The evidence is that John Morrison was mainly responsible for the design.



Hi Adam,

That's interesting to know other clubs have claimed to be a Colt course - I know Luffenham claims to be a Colt course however Paul Turner disputed that and claimed that its likely that John White did the works. Braid also made recommendations/changes.

Cheers
Ben


Luffenham has a rather lovely drawing dated August 1910 and signed 'C.A.' From appearances it seems to be Hugh Alison's first provable design work.


Could the C.A be Colt/Alison or Charles Hugh Alison? and yes I see it in the clubhouse. Its also in 'One hundred years on the Heath' by JP Simmonds a former solicitor and member he mentions the drawing credited to 'Charles Alison' question is whether John White was more involved in the project than either Colt or Alison
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 06:58:06 AM by Ben Stephens »

Ben Stephens

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2022, 06:59:38 AM »
Forgot to add Oadby Municipal as one of Leicester public courses - it used to be 18 with a number of holes within Leicester Racecourse and it closed down for a few years until someone took over a new lease renaming it Leicester Golf Centre creating a driving range and 9 holes of golf all outside the Racecourse.


https://leicestergolfcentre.co.uk/

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2022, 08:36:10 AM »
Good luck with this Duncan.  Glad its working out for you and hope you don’t get webbed feet in next few months.
Adrian Stiff has a spreadsheet of GB&I courses – not sure if it identifies Municipals? Hope he see this.
There’s a heathland one on the other side of Sutton Coldfield Park.   Played it a few years ago and noticed the holes furthest way from the house were interesting, the ones nearer much less so. I’m not surprised it was once a 9 holer.
https://www.boldmeregolfclub.co.uk/

Somewhere on the web. John Moreton has written about Municipal Golf near Birmingham and from memory he stated that the area was in the forefront of this.

I’d also like to know more about Taylor and Hawtree’s work on promoting these courses,  I’ve written on here before about Hainault Forrest GC which was the first in the London area. Within 10 years a second course was added.

I think the two courses in Richmond Park are also Municipals. There’s one on land “taken” from Fulwell Golf Club I think called Hampton Heath and was previously their ladies club. 
Another fine one is Downshire near Bracknell. Which is another heathland.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2022, 11:10:05 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2022, 09:19:37 AM »
Rickmansworth Municipal is what used to be the third course of the Moor Park club (designed by Colt). It's very short but I bet it is interesting.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2022, 09:55:53 AM »
Good luck with this Duncan.  Glad its working out for you and hope you don’t get webbed feet in next few months.
Adrian Stiff has a spreadsheet of GB&I courses – not sure if it identifies Municipals? Hope he see this.
There’s a heathland one on the other side of Sutton Coldfield Park.   Played it a few years ago and noticed the holes furthest way form the house were interesting the ones nearer much less so. I’m not surprised it was once a 9 holer.
https://www.boldmeregolfclub.co.uk/

Somewhere on the web. John Moreton has written about Municipal Golf near Birmingham and from memory he stated that the area was in the forefront of this.

I’d also like to know more about Taylor and Hawtree’s work on promoting these courses,  I’ve written on here before about Hainault Forrest GC which was the first in the London area. Within 10 years a second course was added.

I think the two courses in Richmond Park are also Municipals. There’s one on land “taken” from Fulwell Golf Club I think called Hampton Heath and was previously their ladies club. 
Another fine one is Downshire near Bracknell. Which is another heathland.

I think Bokdermere is on city land, but not a muni. There is a proper club there running things.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022:

Niall C

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2022, 10:49:14 AM »
Tony


Birmingham might have been one of the early council's in England to build muni's but from memory I think Leeds was probably the earliest down south.


In terms of Taylor/Hawtree I don't know that they necessarily majored on muni's even though they did a few. From memory MacKenzie also did quite a lot around Leeds and obviously the infamous one in Aberdeen. He was also a great advocate of them.


Niall





James Reader

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2022, 11:35:44 AM »
Tony


Birmingham might have been one of the early council's in England to build muni's but from memory I think Leeds was probably the earliest down south.


In terms of Taylor/Hawtree I don't know that they necessarily majored on muni's even though they did a few. From memory MacKenzie also did quite a lot around Leeds and obviously the infamous one in Aberdeen. He was also a great advocate of them.


Niall


According to some bloke called Cheslett….


“The courses MacKenzie designed as municipals were;[/size]Temple Newsam, Leeds (1 x 18 hole, 1 x 9 hole)Leeds Municipal (Roundhay Park) LeedsSheffield Municipal (Tinsley Park) SheffieldDouglas Municipal, Isle of Man Hazlehead Municipal, AberdeenStanley Park, BlackpoolIn addition, the MacKenzie designed private Timperley GC in Cheshire was later sold to the local Council and became Altrincham Municipal.”[/color]

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #35 on: November 07, 2022, 11:54:35 AM »
Full list of Colt munis:


Allestree Park, Derby
Southend Belfries
Brandhall, Oldbury, West Midlands -- private at first but was taken over by Sandwell Council at some point. Closed 2020.
Caird Park, Dundee
Great Salterns, Portsmouth
Maesdu, Llandudno
Rickmansworth, Hertfordshire -- originally the Ladies' Course of Moor Park, acquired by the council in 1937
Southport, Lancashire

Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ben Voelker

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #36 on: November 07, 2022, 04:04:49 PM »
Is Carnoustie a muni? 🤔


Probably comes into the same category as the St A's Links Trust courses. Monifieth and Montrose I imagine are similar.


Niall


Just to confirm, all of Carnoustie, Monifieth and Montrose are indeed effectively municipal courses, but perhaps not in the spirit of this question.  They all offer links tickets to the local community (which have a similar cost to club memberships) but without the need to join local clubs.  The greens fee rate for the "main" course are quite expensive so not truly accessible in the same way.


As an aside, many of the communities along the Angus coast also have semi-formal courses that you can rock up and play for free. Montrose has one south of the real courses on the East Links and Arbroath has one as well.  The Montrose one is 6 holes I think, and the longest hole is probably 70 yards or so; I know it well and would take my 3 year old there to knock a ball around.  They aren't golf as we think of it, but I suspect have been around for a long time in a similar configuration.

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #37 on: November 13, 2022, 01:11:06 AM »


Duncan:


Congrats on the new job.


I have not heard of Altrincham, at least under that name.  Are there any features of the course that you would point to as hallmarks of MacKenzie's work?

Tom,

In Dr MacKenzie’s day it was known as Timperley Golf Club and is listed in his well known advertisement under this name.


He appears to have completely remodelled the course in 1919-1921 with new greens and bunkering replacing the Victorian layout which had become rather outdated. Contemporary newspaper articles reference in particular the introduction of many  “hummocks” and these are still very much in evidence around the greens and along several fairways.


A couple of holes have been lost in recent times for Health & Safety reasons including the old 18th which played as a par 3 directly over the entrance drive. This was replaced by diverting a par 5 hole to a new green on previously unused land and the introduction of a short hole to its original green. It actually works rather well.


Quite a few bunkers have been filled in over the years but I still count 67 in place. This is probably around 40 more than can be maintained properly on a very limited municipal budget! I have reluctantly come to the view that the playing experience would be improved considerably by replacing many poorly performing bunkers with more of the kind of grassy hummocks and hollows introduced by Dr Mac 100 years ago. Maintenance would then involve nothing more than the rough mower!


Timperley/Altrincham is one of the more interesting layouts in the Manchester area. In my new role I hope to be instrumental over the next five years or so in lifting its conditioning up to the level of the better private clubs locally.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 01:55:31 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

James Reader

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2022, 07:16:40 AM »
It looks like the plans to redevelop Stanley Park have been dropped for the time being at least….


https://www.blackpool.gov.uk/news/stanley-park-golf-course-development-update.aspx?date=15-11-2022

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: Municipal golf in the U.K.
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2022, 02:45:49 PM »
Interesting stuff and good news James.


Our new head greenkeeper (and my immediate boss) recently joined us from Stanley Park. It’s a good course and I hope it gets the necessary investment.


Somehow unfortunately, I doubt it…. ☹️

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