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Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Best hole, worst backdrop
« on: March 04, 2024, 10:28:18 PM »
On his Instagram, Lukas Michel asked a couple of days ago about the best holes with the worst backdrops—as he put it, the highest ratio of hole quality to backdrop quality. I couldn't find whether that had been discussed on here or not, but it seemed like a fun topic. My submission is #2 at Claremont, but I don't have a good picture of it. Maybe someone here does?

Mike_Clayton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2024, 04:56:37 AM »
Best hole with the worst sidedrop is The Road Hole

Richard Fisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2024, 07:14:35 AM »
16th at Harlech. A 'beautiful, difficult two shot hole' according to P Dickinson which now has a long-condemned asbestos-laden decaying residential tower block behind the green. A useful sighting point for the semiblind 2nd shot but not an aesthetic addition. Unfortunately nobody seems to have the monies to pull it down...

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2024, 08:10:43 AM »
In a similar vein to Richard's example, the 4th at Silloth. One of the very best holes on a great course with a perfect view of the old 4 storey brick mill acting as a backdrop for the approach to the green.


Niall

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2024, 09:50:27 AM »
"Dunes" at Dr. Mackenzie's Seaton Carew has a good claim for this one.

Gorgeous rolling dune land, medium length Par 4 with a strategically placed RH greenside pot, and understated gem.

However the backdrop is a legacy of the Industrial North East, Refineries, Chemical Plants, Waste Energy and North Sea Oil platform decommissioning. Quite the contrast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkrtfn_ThRs

Ira Fishman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2024, 10:07:23 AM »
It may not be a great hole, but Number 1 at Ballybunion Old is worthy of mention. I do like how they embrace the graveyard in their logo.

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2024, 11:17:38 AM »
There are any number of excellent golf holes here in Florida that are in master-planned communities surrounded by cookie-cutter homes. This topic makes me think of the two courses at Lakewood National in particular.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Brett Meyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2024, 02:56:08 PM »
I don't know about the best hole, but strictly for its playing features, the 11th at Rye is pretty good. Diagonal drive where a long hitter can get close to the green, gorse if you go too far and bail out left, interesting green.

But it just looks awful, especially in the context of the rest of the course. Warehouses in the background, a pond with fountains in it on the right. It reminded me of playing downriver in Detroit.


Ian Cox

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2024, 04:51:51 PM »
The 7th at Royal Porthcawl.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2024, 04:58:31 PM »
In a similar vein to Richard's example, the 4th at Silloth. One of the very best holes on a great course with a perfect view of the old 4 storey brick mill acting as a backdrop for the approach to the green.


Niall
A great shout.  A genuinely great hole and a very unattractive backdrop.  But then in the very next post Simon gives us Seaton Carew.  And he fails to mention  the ghost ships (which may now be gone).  Compared to that, 4 at Silloth has a backdrop that could have been painted by Turner.

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2024, 05:43:17 PM »
I don't know about the best hole, but strictly for its playing features, the 11th at Rye is pretty good. Diagonal drive where a long hitter can get close to the green, gorse if you go too far and bail out left, interesting green.

But it just looks awful, especially in the context of the rest of the course. Warehouses in the background, a pond with fountains in it on the right. It reminded me of playing downriver in Detroit.

Both 10 & 11 feel like bland after-thoughts on the worst bit of terrain, and a such Rye is a truly wonderful 16-hole course. The convivality of the members, the understated clubhouse, great lunch and its traditions cover for these drops in quality (and not sure Simpson's relief holes argument bears fruit here; as they are neither easy nor respite, just disappointing)
Notably Tom Doak in his Confidential Guide review doesn't even mention these two holes (damning by ommission Tom?).
Surely there is a re-routing where these two holes could be omitted, and by using two existing or re-routed holes from the Jubilee (which has 12 holes in far more interesting land) to create a higher quality layout.
There has been so much change there over the years, and by so many hands, that if any established club could/should consider such a change it might be Rye?
There is of course some in plan-view strategic merit in a "Cape Hole" (the 11th), but as stated and per the image the golfer's view is reminiscent of a new build characterless modern course with the pond; and boy that and those awful oxygenating fountains are so out-of-place and context. I really don't think there would be many that would cry foul over losing these two holes?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2024, 02:03:49 AM by Simon Barrington »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2024, 06:15:28 PM »
I got one lined up for best hole/best back drop thread when it gets started. Been set as my laptop back ground for years now..

Although I think this one is now NLE, at least in its current state.


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2024, 09:41:17 PM »
"Dunes" at Dr. Mackenzie's Seaton Carew has a good claim for this one.

Gorgeous rolling dune land, medium length Par 4 with a strategically placed RH greenside pot, and understated gem.

However the backdrop is a legacy of the Industrial North East, Refineries, Chemical Plants, Waste Energy and North Sea Oil platform decommissioning. Quite the contrast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pkrtfn_ThRs


This was the first one I thought of.  It was so off-putting that I honestly didn't give the golf course a chance.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2024, 09:43:59 PM »
Honorable mention, but not nearly as bad a backdrop:


The 4th at Woodlands, one of the best drivable par-4 holes in the world.  But the hole plays right up to the fence line, ugly industrial building across the street that they only half-hide with an ugly fence.

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2024, 01:01:53 AM »
Best hole with the worst sidedrop is The Road Hole


+1000

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2024, 02:46:54 AM »
There are a few cracking holes at Seascale with Sellafield in the background.

Brett

I agree about 11 Rye. Really good hole if played from a non-blind tee.

Ciao
« Last Edit: March 06, 2024, 02:48:42 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Brett Meyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2024, 06:35:21 AM »

Both 10 & 11 feel like bland after-thoughts on the worst bit of terrain, and a such Rye is a truly wonderful 16-hole course. The convivality of the members, the understated clubhouse, great lunch and its traditions cover for these drops in quality (and not sure Simpson's relief holes argument bears fruit here; as they are neither easy nor respite, just disappointing)
Notably Tom Doak in his Confidential Guide review doesn't even mention these two holes (damning by ommission Tom?).
Surely there is a re-routing where these two holes could be omitted, and by using two existing or re-routed holes from the Jubilee (which has 12 holes in far more interesting land) to create a higher quality layout.



I actually liked the 10th hole and thought it was a nice change of pace from most of the holes on the front nine, which are often quite narrow. Same is true of the green, which has a subtle beauty; slightly convex at the edges and surrounded by short grass, allowing a strong approach to get away from you. Again, a real contrast to the greens on the front, which often have steep edges or are surrounded by nasty bunkers.




Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2024, 12:03:36 PM »

Both 10 & 11 feel like bland after-thoughts on the worst bit of terrain, and a such Rye is a truly wonderful 16-hole course. The convivality of the members, the understated clubhouse, great lunch and its traditions cover for these drops in quality (and not sure Simpson's relief holes argument bears fruit here; as they are neither easy nor respite, just disappointing)
Notably Tom Doak in his Confidential Guide review doesn't even mention these two holes (damning by ommission Tom?).
Surely there is a re-routing where these two holes could be omitted, and by using two existing or re-routed holes from the Jubilee (which has 12 holes in far more interesting land) to create a higher quality layout.

I actually liked the 10th hole and thought it was a nice change of pace from most of the holes on the front nine, which are often quite narrow. Same is true of the green, which has a subtle beauty; slightly convex at the edges and surrounded by short grass, allowing a strong approach to get away from you. Again, a real contrast to the greens on the front, which often have steep edges or are surrounded by nasty bunkers.
Beauty in the eye of the beholder.
I think if you showed that image (and the previous one) to most on here and asked which course it was, very few would guess that it was Rye.

The two holes are so out of character visually with the rest of the layout (as you mentioned) which is my issue with them...it is lack of visual harmony, rather than playing challenge (they both seem/look more modern, not knowing their chronology).

Which I think is what this thread is all about, that dichotomy, which is why it is such a good subject/debate.
But I completely respect and understand your more constructive view on these holes.

I absolutely love Rye (both Club and Course) and have played many times there, but I do feel it could be even better.
Tom thought in his guide it could possibly be a "Top 50" Course, perhaps so with a small change or two?
Or maybe better just to leave as it is?

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2024, 02:34:32 AM »
One of the more interesting sidedrops I've played in years:

@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Ian Andrew

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2024, 08:14:06 AM »
Honorable mention, but not nearly as bad a backdrop:

The 4th at Woodlands, one of the best drivable par-4 holes in the world.  But the hole plays right up to the fence line, ugly industrial building across the street that they only half-hide with an ugly fence.
First one that came to mind for me. Great Hole being the key.

The left side Favella on 2nd (?) at Gavea (hole on south-west corner) is an unusual example
It's not as beautiful (from a distance  :) ) as Rocinia seen to the north of the course
(I played a temporary routing)
-

Simon Barrington

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #20 on: March 07, 2024, 02:50:13 PM »
One of the more interesting sidedrops I've played in years:


"Golfers are just dying to play there"
Apologies...I'll get my coat.

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #21 on: March 07, 2024, 06:41:55 PM »
One of the more interesting sidedrops I've played in years:


"Golfers are just dying to play there"
Apologies...I'll get my coat.


I’ve played many courses with a cemetery adjacent, but this was the first with the site on the course.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2024, 10:57:22 PM »
I got one lined up for best hole/best back drop thread when it gets started. Been set as my laptop back ground for years now..

Although I think this one is now NLE, at least in its current state.




Is this you-know-who? Either way, a couple of those waterfall holes do come to mind!

Philip Gordillo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2024, 11:54:01 PM »
Mid Ocean #5. Played the course a few years ago and it was spectacular.  However, I was sad to see the mining operation behind the Cape Hole green.  It felt like someone vandalized a famous painting.  Having trouble posting the photo but I can email it if anyone wants to upload it. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 11:57:18 PM by Philip Gordillo »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best hole, worst backdrop
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2024, 10:30:57 AM »
I got one lined up for best hole/best back drop thread when it gets started. Been set as my laptop back ground for years now..

Although I think this one is now NLE, at least in its current state.




Is this you-know-who? Either way, a couple of those waterfall holes do come to mind!


Indeed it is, and it was tongue in cheek of course.


I'm pretty sure it was the prior version of the 17th at the #1 rated course in the US...also according to the same you know who.  ;D

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